tylerw Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So, this formation requires you to have 1 unit of Wolf Guard, 1 Drop Pod, and 1 unit of Wolf Guard TDA. It has a rule that gives these units twinlinked the turn they arrive, and they must arrive via deepstrike. RAW, it appears that you cannot deploy this until turn two, unless you have another drop pod in a fast attack slot or some other shenanigans. RAI, people seem to be debating that the formation is pretty dumb if you CANNOT do it until turn 2, and that they must have meant that you could deep strike the TDA in on turn 1. I wanted to get some thoughts on this - I tend to think that they did intend for this unit to wait until turn 2, as twinlinked combis + CML is pretty solid, but I can see the argument the other way, that since the unit MUST arrive together, that when you pod in the WGPA on turn one (which to my mind, you just can't do), the TDA get to deep strike in one turn one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Are there rules in how they Deep Strike, what they ride, what options they can take, and/or do they have to Deep Strike together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The formation brings a pack of Wolf Guard Terminators and a pod of PA Wolf Guard in to play together on a successful reserve roll. The question has been does the drop pod lose its Drop Pod Assault rule since a reserve roll is required. I don't have the book so the actual wording is needed to make an informed opinion. What is the wording that brings the formation into play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 "When rolling for Reserves, make a single Reserve Roll to see when this Formation arrives. On a successful roll, all units in this Formation will arrive. This Formation must deploy by Deep Strike." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I know how I see this. Reserve rolls start turn 2 and this formation requires a reserve roll so ignore the drop pod assault rule. The formation's rules taking priority over the base drop pod rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yeah to me, it seems you're basically counting the whole formation as a single reserved squad. And the pod only confers drop pod assault to itself, not the terminators outside the pod. Plus it actually clearly states that you roll for the formation, so I don't see where any confusion actually comes from. Doesn't seem like a very good formation to me though. Especially if you have no reserve roll manipulation, can you really risk to afford not having all those points possibly arrive turn 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykryl Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The confusion is wishful thinking and dreaming of deep striking a TDA squad in turn 1, using drop pod assault to get around the reserve roll mentioned in the formation rules Edit: :cuss phone auto correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marshal Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Idk in the brb under formation it says rules that they gain. Doesn't anything about losing rules. And actually states unless otherwise noted maintaines it normal battlefield role. That does not get rid of the drop pod assault rule.but if you dropped two other drop pods and your third drop pod was the thunder strike formation you make one roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 IMO, the formation's rules would override the pod's usual drop assault rule, following the standard specific overrides general... The formation says you have to roll to come in from reserve, so your pod can't arrive on turn 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 So what happens if the drop pod from the formation is the only one in the army? Drop pod assault says you have to deep strike half (round up) of your pods on turn 1. The formation however says you have to roll for reserve for the whole formation, which, without additional rules, can only be done on turn 2+. The formation also says that all its units arrive together. So you cannot fulfill all those rules at the same time. One has to give. GW really needs to release an erratum for the formation. Either that the formation cannot arrive turn 1 or what the reserve roll for turn 1 arrival is or that the formation can always arrive turn 1. Right now the formation is dysfunctional without other drop pods in the army. I am not aware of a rule saying that formation rules trump dataslate rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 IMO, the formation's rules would override the pod's usual drop assault rule, following the standard specific overrides general... Yeah, the rule is Basic versus Advanced not specific versus general. And even that doesn't help, because it doesn't specify between codex and supplement, especially when there is a conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 What happens if you embark the WGT in a Fast slot Drop Pod from another Detachment? That Drop Pod has to use it's Drop Pod Assault Rule, but the WGT aren't able to enter play due to their Formation rules. It's a badly designed Formation is all, and requires clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 And even that doesn't help, because it doesn't specify between codex and supplement, especially when there is a conflict. BTW, I don't need a reply from you to this next post, we all already know what your stance is... Still, I think that a supplement which does exactly one thing - that is, modify/expand the rules in a single codex - would, by its very nature, override rules that appear in that codex it runs in conflict with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'll reply then. :) I would have loved for GW to change from Codex > Advanced > Basic to Specific > General. As I've said multiple times, the new 5th Edition DnD has done just that. And it works fine. Sadly, we are stuck with Codex > Advanced > Basic and no direction on how to resolve Advanced - Advanced or Codex - Codex conflicts (bar a dice off). Now, everyone can do whatever they like, and rule however they (and their group) want. Officially, it's Codex > Advanced > Basic only. And the cop out to rules issues that some designers seem to think is ok to excuse shoddy work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 And even that doesn't help, because it doesn't specify between codex and supplement, especially when there is a conflict. BTW, I don't need a reply from you to this next post, we all already know what your stance is... Oh? Do "we" now? Simply pointing out what the rules say does not indicate support one way or the other. The only other thing I've mentioned in this thread is clarification on what the rule says. And this is a situation where the rules do not have any sway, one way or the other. Still, I think that a supplement which does exactly one thing - that is, modify/expand the rules in a single codex - would, by its very nature, override rules that appear in that codex it runs in conflict with. Personally, I'm more on the Supplement overrides Codex group in regards to conflicts, personally, but this is an odd situation as to which part should be overridden, Drop Pod Assault or standard Deep Srike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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