Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I love the models and I want to run the WD formation (1 vas, and 2 ras) just for fun. I definitely want them to have Jump-packs and deep strike. But if you run power-weapons, they are more expensive than Sanguinary Guard and quite a bit less effective. I was thinking either all grav-pistols (I've never used any grav weapons) and sergeant with thunder-hammer, or all hand-flamers and sergeant with power-weapon or LC - everyone else with CCW. Thoughts? ...what about Infernus or Plasma Pistols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The only way to run them without sucking is to use that formation that allows you to get a LC or a PW for free. Then they become rather good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 The only way to run them without sucking is to use that formation that allows you to get a LC or a PW for free. Then they become rather good. Which one is that? I have all the WD and the campaign books,I don't recall seeing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The only way to run them without sucking is to use that formation that allows you to get a LC or a PW for free. Then they become rather good.Which one is that? I have all the WD and the campaign books,I don't recall seeing that. It's in shield of Baal exterminatus it has a stormraven, sternguard, and stormraven. Sternguard and vanguard are both allowed free wargear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The OP is already using them in a different formation so no free wargear. Their main purpose is to provide scatter-free Deep Strike to the RAS following on behind and to administer "meteoric impact" hits to any nearby infantry. Between Meteoric impact from 3 squads as well as plenty of bolt pistols and standard attacks, light infantry would be pretty well shredded. What this formation struggles with out of the box is any elite units like TEQs or MCs that lumber over to have a go at the deep strikers. For this reason, I would consider keeping the VanVets small but equipping some of them with TH/SS for anti-MC duty. Their job is to intercept any elite CC units on the turn after they DS so that the RAS squads can keep on doing their thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The only way to run them without sucking is to use that formation that allows you to get a LC or a PW for free. Then they become rather good. ^ Disagree here. I think the VanVets are a hidden gem. Their ability to take storm shields is absolutely golden. I've been rocking an 8 man squad for 256 points- 2x PW, 2xMB, 4x Shields and JPs. They roll with the Priest. I've had incredible results and theyve managed to tank some serious firepower that would have left other squads toasted. Same deal in combat! edit: In short - whatever you do, make sure you make use of their access to shields. If you're not- you're better off taking DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Interesting, I hadn't even really considered the TH/SS or even just SS options... That formation is nice from Exterminatus but having to field 2x10man VAS and a 10man Sternguard is bit much for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Interesting, I hadn't even really considered the TH/SS or even just SS options... That formation is nice from Exterminatus but having to field 2x10man VAS and a 10man Sternguard is bit much for me. Even just ablative SS are great, Chap. Gunzhard!! My specific load out is this: Character: Power Maul, BP Vet: Power Axe, BP 4x Vet: Storm Shield, BP 2x Vet: CCW/BP, MB The reason for this load out is i'll be assigning all the heavy hits to the 3++ - so i dont want them carrying any gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The only way to run them without sucking is to use that formation that allows you to get a LC or a PW for free. Then they become rather good. ^ Disagree here. I think the VanVets are a hidden gem. Their ability to take storm shields is absolutely golden. I've been rocking an 8 man squad for 256 points- 2x PW, 2xMB, 4x Shields and JPs. They roll with the Priest. I've had incredible results and theyve managed to tank some serious firepower that would have left other squads toasted. Same deal in combat! edit: In short - whatever you do, make sure you make use of their access to shields. If you're not- you're better off taking DC I dunno, dude. I think I'd much rather invest the points in Command Squads to do that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If I ever field a Vanguard veterans, it would be a large 10 man squad with jump packs, Sergeant with twin lightning claws and auspex, 2 vets with TH/SS, 1 power sword/SS, 2 inferno pistols/SS. Now this costs 410pts. I know it looks like they are too expensive, but I view them as 2 x 5 man squads of 205 pts each and lots of resilience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Small point but Sergeants can't have auspexes, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Small point but Sergeants can't have auspexes, unfortunately. Damn, you're right. 405 it is then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Going off on a small tangent, but I really wish sergeant COULD take auspexes. Its really odd that almost every squad box comes with at least one yet they can't even use them. Game-wise, it would have been a pretty big boost to Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Something that hasn't been mentioned about Vanguard Veterans is that they ignore any penalties for Disordered Charges. That includes the +1 Initiative bonus from the Red Thirst. This means that you can run your ten-man squad of Vanguard Veterans at multiple squads to tie them down for a while - hitting multiple backline units such as Devastators with a single squad is hecka useful. You'd be putting out four attacks each on the charge, S5, I5 and holding down those units for a good turn or so. There's been concern about Death Company or Sanguinary Guard wiping out units on the charge. They unfortunately can't really justify the multiple charge option (Death Company moreso than Sanguinary Guard) because the loss of charging benefits are huge to us. Want a unit to pin down multiple of your opponent's units and still bring the hurt? Bring Vanguard Veterans, spread them thin and hit as many units as possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Keep em coming guys. I'm at a loss with dc and sanguard due to riptide that crops up among opponents. Vanvets sound like a good medium. They're they only ones of the three with an invun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Going off on a small tangent, but I really wish sergeant COULD take auspexes. Its really odd that almost every squad box comes with at least one yet they can't even use them. Game-wise, it would have been a pretty big boost to Marines. Why is that? I was thinking about giving my Tac Squad the Auspex that came with the new tactical set, but when I was looking it up, I saw no option for that. That was... frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Interesting, I hadn't even really considered the TH/SS or even just SS options... That formation is nice from Exterminatus but having to field 2x10man VAS and a 10man Sternguard is bit much for me. Even just ablative SS are great, Chap. Gunzhard!! My specific load out is this: Character: Power Maul, BP Vet: Power Axe, BP 4x Vet: Storm Shield, BP 2x Vet: CCW/BP, MB The reason for this load out is i'll be assigning all the heavy hits to the 3++ - so i dont want them carrying any gear. I actually really like that load ou, there's a lot of battle cannons in my meta so I want to try that out. Also how many points is that in total? And who duo target with that kind of squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Going off on a small tangent, but I really wish sergeant COULD take auspexes. Its really odd that almost every squad box comes with at least one yet they can't even use them. Game-wise, it would have been a pretty big boost to Marines. Why is that? What do you mean? Why would it be a big boost to Marines? Because it'd make our shooting that much more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Going off on a small tangent, but I really wish sergeant COULD take auspexes. Its really odd that almost every squad box comes with at least one yet they can't even use them. Game-wise, it would have been a pretty big boost to Marines. Why is that? What do you mean? Why would it be a big boost to Marines? Because it'd make our shooting that much more effective. No, I mean why can't they use them? There was a whole sentence following, "Why is that?" to explain :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 No, I mean why can't they use them? There was a whole sentence following, "Why is that?" to explain Ah I didn't think they were connected. You'd have to ask GW why they don't have access to them. Maybe they think its too powerful? They might not be wrong if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 No, I mean why can't they use them? There was a whole sentence following, "Why is that?" to explain Ah I didn't think they were connected. You'd have to ask GW why they don't have access to them. Maybe they think its too powerful? They might not be wrong if so. I would hardly think that -1 cover is bad compared to what tau can do also with meltagun it would be a bit better against things like wave serpents. Sometimes I wonder if gw does crack or some kinda of drugs like that fine ass warp dust when they write rules. I love the new book though it wasn't as great as the 5th edition book though. With that I could do a dreadnought army with diffrent kinds of dreads, assualt marine spam, av 13, land raider spam, etc. however I think that our book was taken more to its roots. It's a shame that tacticals suck though, but the heavy flamer makes up for this a bit. Honestly I can't wait to get some more games in with it but that might not be because my stupid hobby ADHD wants me to make a horus heresy army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Interesting, I hadn't even really considered the TH/SS or even just SS options... That formation is nice from Exterminatus but having to field 2x10man VAS and a 10man Sternguard is bit much for me. Even just ablative SS are great, Chap. Gunzhard!! My specific load out is this: Character: Power Maul, BP Vet: Power Axe, BP 4x Vet: Storm Shield, BP 2x Vet: CCW/BP, MB The reason for this load out is i'll be assigning all the heavy hits to the 3++ - so i dont want them carrying any gear. I actually really like that load ou, there's a lot of battle cannons in my meta so I want to try that out. Also how many points is that in total? And who duo target with that kind of squad? 256 for the squad! And anybody is game! It's my all purpose scalpel. Ive not yet deep struck them in, as I like them on the field to draw fire. They're definitely not a beat stick, though, so cant be used to tackle any big heavy hitters, but even vs. Knights they are quite good on account of the 3++ . (Stomp and CCW D-weapon rolls of 6s not-withstanding!) stuff I dunno, dude. I think I'd much rather invest the points in Command Squads to do that job. I like the CS too! I think their access to specials (never mind the apothecary) is also a boon! And point-for-point up to 5 guys, theyre by FAR the better option. But, it's their limit of 5 that deters me. Jumpers are going to take casualties en route. Unless i'm playing a tanky dante, or some kind of captain on a bike with arty armour, they will be too neutered to be of adequate service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Take two squads and converge on the same target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Take two squads and converge on the same target. Far more expensive, but not a bloody bad idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 It's not really that much more expensive, really. Your loadout is 256 pts. For 300 pts, you'd get mostly the same (power swords on the the Champions instead of mauls/axes) and two additional dudes. That's almost exactly the same as if you'd had brought your VV squad up to 10 dudes (298 pts). The big thing, though, is that the points you would have invested in getting a Priest for that squad can be redirected at buying something else. That's a big saving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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