Mutations in Chaos Marines

[Carrack]

One thing I find interesting in Astartes in general but Chaos Marines in particular, is that you can have veterans of centuries of actual fighting, whom have not progressed into any leadership role of their organization. In some interpretations of the Veterans of the Long War skill, you could concievably have a standard bolter carrying CSM who fought in the Horus Heresy. Sure this is mitigated by time in the Eye and warp travel in general, but it's still a long time to go without any promotion. Perhaps my view is too clouded by modern military practices in meritocratic fighting forces. Maybe CSM view their warband more like a professional sports team or an art studio, where Legionaires progress in their skills and techniques but do not regularly advance into positions of authority over their peers.

 

If this is the case, mutations might be closely watched by the other members of the warband as anything that will distinguish an individual from the rank and file would be of interest to existing leaders and their fellow warriors.

 

Is the third eye that grew out of Legioniare Harold's forehead a sign from the gods that he will one day ascend his mortal coil to the ranks of the Daemon Princes? Or is it a warning of their displeasure and his future collapse into spawndom? Either way the warband will be watching.

[Slave to Darkness]

I think a new set of upgrade parts would be a good idea for unit champions, like the old RoC stuff, Flamer bodes, Face of a Horror etc For Tzeentch, Daemonette style claw/legs, torso with one breast flopping out for Slaanesh. That kinda stuff, would look better than the crappy head and shoulder pad we have for god aligned CSM Champions now. No doubt everyone will disagree with me on this, oh well... 

[A D-B]

The most difficult aspect of this subject is that, to us as readers, mutation is seen as weakness, or a flaw, or ugly, or something a Chaos Marine would want to resist (or even that they all simply can resist them)  or whatever else. Plus there's the fact that they don't really come with much tabletop benefit. Those two factors together can infect our perceptions of how characters in-universe would view the subject. 

 

Which, of course, then plays into the false notion that most mutations or Chaos influence arises from worship of the Gods, as if Chaos were simply a religion. Chaos can filter into you the moment you feel jealous at something your friend owns, or the moment you feel you deserve more in life than you currently deserve. That's how it begins, and often how it carries on. It's not all kneeling and praying and worshipping - which I think is always worth restating in these kinds of discussions. There are as many ways to be involved with Chaos as there are Chaos-touched souls themselves. Every warband will be different, though with tropes and traditions among many; the Word Bearers' faith is the obvious example.

 

Yes, it's cool that some (by no means all) Iron Warriors replace a mutated limb with augmetics, but that's less and less possible when you take, say, a Dark Vengeance Chaos Marine. Mutations aren't really just a gross tentacle or claw you can cut off and pretend it never happened. They're a sign of a supernatural pantheon of inhuman immortal emotions having gained sentience and taken a momentary interest in you, infecting your soul. 

 

Key the discussion, even in terms of frequency of appearance, is the notion that these are supposed to be gifts. Yes, some will be apparently random warp-touches or their benefit will be of dubious wisdom, only apparent to immortal minds or godly senses of humour. Regret comes at the Spawn stage, when it's apparent it's all gone too far. And even that phase isn't guaranteed. No one believes it'll happen to them. Those other / unluckier / weaker guys? Sure. But these are things many Chaos Marines actively hope for and rarely hate. They're the manifestation of the Chaos Marine's sins and strengths wrought upon their flesh and armour. For many, they're things to be proud of, to admire, and to aspire to. Gifts, that reveal more about the path that the Chaos Marine is on, or add to the warrior's strength, or even increase his usefulness to the distant gods.

[Warsmith Aznable]

There's definitely a distinction between the reality of the setting concerning what chaos and mutations really are versus what characters and warbands in-universe believe them to be.

 

Personally I find tragic villains more interesting than outright evil villains. It's that difference between the horrible truth and a righteously asserted yet flawed understanding of it that I like.

[Forté]

Don't forget too that mutations don't always take the for of something that is visually obvious. If you're old enough (yes, I said old, not lucky. And yes I am old enough) to remember the old Realms of Chaos books then you'll remember things as subtle as a change in eye/ skin colour, psychological changes, and many other things which armour would conceal. So not every mutation would be beneficial (atrophied limb springs to mind).

[Zeratil]

Don't forget too that mutations don't always take the for of something that is visually obvious. If you're old enough (yes, I said old, not lucky. And yes I am old enough) to remember the old Realms of Chaos books then you'll remember things as subtle as a change in eye/ skin colour, psychological changes, and many other things which armour would conceal. So not every mutation would be beneficial (atrophied limb springs to mind).

 

Ahh yes, Crown of Flesh, specifically the Crown of 'GM's Choice' mutation...It was only ever a crown of one thing. Those books were awesome.

 

  I think part of the whole mutations thing is that players experience of them is often through random tables (Realms of Chaos, Black Crusade, 6th Ed Chaos) which always has that element of getting something the player (if not the champion) consider detrimental or superfluous. Also there are some famous stories/examples of lore in which mutation is something to be avoided (the Rubric for example) and I can't think of many stories that feature a (particularly CSM) protagonist with mutations? It may just be my memory failing me there though. There are lots of examples of chaos adversaries described or defined by mutations, but I struggle to think of fiction along the lines of 'I'm a champion of chaos with (67-73) Mouth of a (16) Beetle, here is my story'. So players/readers experience of mutations is generally a negative thing, with fewer representations in the fluff of mutation being a good/desired thing by the champions of chaos.

[Forté]

Used to love it. Hope for something cool. Gets stupidity!

[Chaeron]

Don't forget too that mutations don't always take the for of something that is visually obvious. If you're old enough (yes, I said old, not lucky. And yes I am old enough) to remember the old Realms of Chaos books then you'll remember things as subtle as a change in eye/ skin colour, psychological changes, and many other things which armour would conceal. So not every mutation would be beneficial (atrophied limb springs to mind).

 

I think that's why the old hybrid kits for the Lost and the Damned were so awesome, because the myriad parts allowed you to make mutants that were so incredibly different and varied in the form of their mutations. 

 

I've seen Kyrie (unsure if he's on this forum?) sculpt some brilliant ones that are now sold by Zinge, as well as converting Goblins into some truly beautiful mutated creatures. 

[Jareddm]

I'm interested in people's opinions on the application of more traditional mutations, rather than specifically warp-born mutations, in regards to chaos space marines.  The kind of mutations that thrive in underhives and amongst enslaved and untouchable populations.  Mutagens, radioactives, and other more exotic compounds and chemical waste products.  Is the astartes physiology simply beyond such environmental tampering?  Or perhaps a warband may shun the gods, but seek "ascendance" through more mundane procedures?  Do they differentiate the mutations of their menials that come from living around endless toxins and diseases vs those mutated through prayer and ritual?  Or is there no difference (a view the Ecclesiarchy is fond of)?

All thoughts are welcome.

[awilden]

Does Nurgly bloating/rot/pustules count as a mutation? I've resisted using any 'mutation' bitz from the possessed sprues (or others) on Nurgle marines (like normal csm or plague marines), it didn't seem appropriate, even though i have seen models done up with them and they look cool enough. I've only really got Spawn that are all mutation afflicted and still remain Nurgle (have some possessed and decided to make them Slaanesh instead of the standard Nurgle theme that my army has, because it seemed more appropriate).

[Forté]

The "Nurgly" stuff is more an affliction than mutation initially. It's more when the horns start to sprout, the boils burst, and intestines split through the belly that it more becomes mutation.

[Carrack]

I'm interested in people's opinions on the application of more traditional mutations, rather than specifically warp-born mutations, in regards to chaos space marines. The kind of mutations that thrive in underhives and amongst enslaved and untouchable populations. Mutagens, radioactives, and other more exotic compounds and chemical waste products. Is the astartes physiology simply beyond such environmental tampering? Or perhaps a warband may shun the gods, but seek "ascendance" through more mundane procedures? Do they differentiate the mutations of their menials that come from living around endless toxins and diseases vs those mutated through prayer and ritual? Or is there no difference (a view the Ecclesiarchy is fond of)?

All thoughts are welcome.

I would think that mutations from mundane environmental sources would be rare indeed for an Astartes. First many of these mutations may be genetic, as in the subjects mom or dad lived to close to the factory sludge pool and their son was born with mutations. Unless these were somehow stable and beneficial, the son would not be selected to host geneseed, as it is incompatible with the majority of mankind anyway. Once fully an Astartes, the CSM is resistant to a wide range of environmental factors, such as lethal radiation, a wide range of toxic weapons employed by the guard, crushing underwater depths, and even the vacuum of space for short periods. I can't think that any environmental hazard could change an Astartes form without it being related to the warp.

 

As far as mutations amongst the slave rabble and thralls, I think their would be a clear difference if it was known that a slave's mutation was the result of the gods will or because of the slime in his porridge. Someone, even a thrall, who had garnered the attention of the gods may be under their protection. If a Legionnaire were to kill this thrall without cause, the god that marked him may withhold favor or worse. In the Night Lords Trilogy, the favored slaves of Talos get the grudging respect of the other slaves, and are not subject to the gang violence that plagues the rest of the mortal crew. Even other Astartes like Ruven refrain from attacking Talos's pets. This is because they fear the wrath of his patron, a cruel and powerful Chaos Marine. How much more would they fear and respect a thrall with potentially the protection of a god?

 

On the other hand...

 

It could be that a god marked a group of rabble as slaves, to choke their enemies guns with their bodies and drown their trenches with their unholy blood. The mutations that they manifest are to let all know that they have displeased the gods and their wretched state is a warning to others to be more fervent in honoring the gods or you too will join the gibbering hoards of mutants that shovel filth in the bilge decks of the Legions ships.

[Chaeron]

The "Nurgly" stuff is more an affliction than mutation initially. It's more when the horns start to sprout, the boils burst, and intestines split through the belly that it more becomes mutation.

 

Yeah, there's that internal mutation, the physiological aspect - before the physical manifestations which we can actively see and model.