Varizel Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Greetings brothers, I just had a rule dispute earlier. In the rulebook we can take a unit that does not take FOC slot in any detachment assuming we clear its requirements and the unit will join that detachment. Our Command Squad and Techmarines do not take FOC and only requires us to take any HQ barring the command squad itself and Techmarine. So i was wondering, can we take command squad for unrelenting hunt fomation since we do have 2 HQ from that formation? I am in the side that think that we cannot do that since the command squad wasn't in the formation itself, but looking at rules the other guy seems correct since it seems nothing prohibits it. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Round here, people would say no, based on this: Instead of including a Force Organisation chart, the Army List Entries that comprise a Formation are listed on it, along with any special rules that those units gain. Therefore if it's not listed on the Formation, it does not comprise the Formation. But I've seen it argued both ways online. In the absence of an FAQ, I'd suggest sorting it out with your group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If the formation doesn't include a Command Squad or a Techmarine in its composition you cannot take them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If you haven't quite figured it out yet the unrelenting hunt and it's sister krannons hellguard are basically ways of extending 40k's starter kit and the expansion kits into fighting forces for fools too incapable of putting them togeather into a fighting force other ways. Yes they are terrible rules but that's because it's ment to be starring across the table at the hellguard and no one else. And in that controlled environment alone does the hunt formation work. It can't exist beyond that ad it wouldn't be able to fight anyone else effectively. Though it still confounds me as to how exactly the dark Angel is expected to stop a land raider with only the dwk's and dwt's capable of hurting it, and the time bomb is a one off hit n hope to stall for time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Formations are generally set entries that make up a list, while special detachments are a guideline of required slots. The Command Squad codex entry was written for 6th, well before this formation nonsense began, so to me the language it's using is you can take that: if you are building a list using the standard FOC. Only way you'd be able to legally get a CS into your list is if you brought an Allied detachment (or CAD for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loar Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 if you are taking the unrelenting hunt formation and then taking another DA CAD for example I believe the RAW you could take the extra command squads as part of the CAD, not the formation. If you look at the rules for the command squads and that it mentions "army" not "detachment" it would seem it lets you, as the formation is part of your army and is the same faction, the only rules required to take the command squads. That has been my and our groups interpretation of the rule, although this has mainly come up using the librarian formation and not this one, the same rules would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 So are dedicated transports allowed in the Unrelenting Hunt, or is it footslogging only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The transport are options For the squads Like a special or heavy weapon so they can have it... If you have problems dealing with the LR in CSM formation you can gave 2 LR and 1 rhino/drop pod/razorback For the tactical squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If you look at the rules for the command squads and that it mentions "army" not "detachment" it would seem it lets you, as the formation is part of your army and is the same faction, the only rules required to take the command squads.. By RAW I would agree. One can argue the toss as to the RAI - my only comments on that would be if the CS was intended for inclusion then it would probably be within the formation from the get go. Or, a specific rule would be included to disallow it <_<. Tbh the whole CAD / Allies / Detachments / Formations interaction is for me becoming needlessly too complex when it starts to throw up these kinds of army-building issues. More clarity required please. Cheers I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If you look at the rules for the command squads and that it mentions "army" not "detachment" it would seem it lets you, as the formation is part of your army and is the same faction, the only rules required to take the command squads.. By RAW I would agree. One can argue the toss as to the RAI - my only comments on that would be if the CS was intended for inclusion then it would probably be within the formation from the get go. Or, a specific rule would be included to disallow it . Tbh the whole CAD / Allies / Detachments / Formations interaction is for me becoming needlessly too complex when it starts to throw up these kinds of army-building issues. More clarity required please. Cheers I i agree its poorly written, detachments should not be whole armies like this because these kinds of issues happen, they all are never practical when you start discussing points investment vs rule gain. you will never get back the points invested in enough special rules. the exception might be that circus one in wych covens but that supplement has bigger fish to fry than formation complications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loar Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 don't forget the BA one that essentially gives you 400 free points in wargear :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 If you look at the rules for the command squads and that it mentions "army" not "detachment" it would seem it lets you, as the formation is part of your army and is the same faction, the only rules required to take the command squads.. By RAW I would agree. One can argue the toss as to the RAI - my only comments on that would be if the CS was intended for inclusion then it would probably be within the formation from the get go. Or, a specific rule would be included to disallow it <_<. Tbh the whole CAD / Allies / Detachments / Formations interaction is for me becoming needlessly too complex when it starts to throw up these kinds of army-building issues. More clarity required please. Cheers I But here we're on subjectivity. To me the rules are perfectly clear : FOC make the limitation in SLOTS Formations make the limitation in ENTRIES Command squads can be taken in FOC because they occupy no slot. They cannot be included in the UH formation because the latter specifies the list of entries ALLOWED. If an entry is not in the list it's not allowed. LR are allowed ONLY if they are taken as transport for the DW and/or the knights squads, because the option is IN THE ENTRY. CS could have been allowed if in the Librarian or master entries they would have been the option "a librarian/master may have a command squad for +100pts. Seefurther for the command squad description and options" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The issue is: is a CS or Techie unlocked for inclusion in an army as a whole on the basis of required unlocking units present in a formation taken with that army.I totally see where you're coming from Master Avoghai - but we're not adding to the formation itself per se.The only legal requirement for their addition being the presence of certain units somewhere in the army.Having qualifying units in the formation would seem to satisfy that requirement.I would suspect that that is why Techies and CSs, as I understand it, are now slot-occupying selectable entries in their own right [needs verifying] in the BA Codex to sort out these unlocking issues .CheersI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I agree with you Isiah... And i male you notice that in BA formations there are a couple that must be in reserve and they con from reserves with a single roll... If you put a Squad from that formations in a DP you force them to come from reserves automatically in the first turn... Hope we get a formation or two that can exploit that thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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