Blood Boil, LoS and cover saves

[Shaezus]

Example situation: An IG blob in open ground but behind an aegis, with a commisar in the middle. BA Libby casts Blood Boil and shoots from the other side of the aegis at the commisar, who fails a T test.

 

The rules say no saves of any kind allowed, does this include look out sir?

 

From the resulting large blast, do the surrounding guardsmen gain cover because the original shot was fired over the aegis?

 

My answer to both would be no, but I cannot access my BRB on my phone and am curious what people think.

 

If he could LoS it then there would be no large blast, as the targeted model must die. Only asking because you know what some people are like.

[Ushtarador]

Agree with the second question, the blast originates from the exploding model, so there should be no cover.

No idea about the first one though.. and that doesn't happen often oO

[tylerw]

Agree with the second question, the blast originates from the exploding model, so there should be no cover.

No idea about the first one though.. and that doesn't happen often oO

 

I thought cover for blasts was still determined by whether you have LOS to each individual model. Barrage cover LOS is from the center of the target, as I understand it, but isn't blast still LOS to/from the shooter?

[gustmic]

On the first question, I'd say since it is of a (focussed) witchfire type, it is handled as a shooting attack.

Thus, I would think that a LoS roll would apply here.

It is analog to the 6th "focused fire" special rule, I would assume.

Note that LoS-roll is not a save.

 

On the second point, it says in the text of "Blood Boil" that it ignores cover.

However, other saves are ok.

RAI I would handle it as a barrage, but RAW I am not sure.

 

/gustmic

[SnorriSnorrison]

I'd target any of the sergeants that are available in such a blob. As gustmic said, the blast itself ignores cover and also has AP5, so the guardsmen would die after the first failed toughness test of said sergeant.

As pointed out, it's a shooting attack, so LoS applies here - but doesn't really matter unless that targeted model stands next to a multi-wound model. Other than saving a special (melee) weapon of some sort, taking a LoS test for the sergeant doesn't really make sense, because the next guardsmen will die just as easily. Once the wound is taken, BOOM and a huge hole in that blob is all what remains.

That power does sound very cool. Also nice for dug-in pathfinders/anything that relies on a coversave with low toughness value.

Snorri

[Xenith]

Example situation: An IG blob in open ground but behind an aegis, with a commisar in the middle. BA Libby casts Blood Boil and shoots from the other side of the aegis at the commisar, who fails a T test.

 

The rules say no saves of any kind allowed, does this include look out sir?

 

From the resulting large blast, do the surrounding guardsmen gain cover because the original shot was fired over the aegis?

 

My answer to both would be no, but I cannot access my BRB on my phone and am curious what people think.

 

If he could LoS it then there would be no large blast, as the targeted model must die. Only asking because you know what some people are like.

 

Saves are made after wounds are allocated to models.

 

Look out sir is not a save, it is a roll to see if the wound that you have allocated can be re-allocated by the defending player.

 

If you allocate a wound to a model, then it always gets to look out sir, unless there is a special rule which states otherwise.

[Shaezus]

Thanks ever so much for the replies fellas. You all do credit to the forum :)

 

The safest bet in the above example would be to use on a non-character model, this way LoS can't prevent the blast kicking off.

 

Cheers.

[Xenith]

Well, I'd do it on a (non independent) character anyway. Even if they pass a look out sir, the end result is the same as your option, the wound being allocated to a non character.

 

I guess you could selectively target models at the back so your bolters are still in RF range or you're in assault range etc.

[Shaezus]

The only reason I'm thinking of targeting a non-character is that the rules for BB say that 'if they (the target) are slain, centre the large blast marker..'; RAI the blast would still be placed if a model other than the target takes the wound(s), but RAW this could be interpreted otherwise. Not that I would say anything unless my oppo interrupts me when placing the marker. Plenty of rules bandits around so I'm just playing naysayer to myself really.

[Arkangilos]

I understand it may be in the rules, but that doesn't make any sense at all. How can someone say, "Look out sir!" and jump in the way of your internal organs and blood boiling? 

 

That's basically like a Librarian waiving his hand, your blood boiling, and someone else, who has a totally different set of insides, pushing you out of the way to be boiled instead... I just don't get it.

[Shaezus]

Totally agree!

[Arkangilos]

Totally agree!

Well if we play, we won't use the LoS rule then, lol.

[Xenith]

I understand it may be in the rules, but that doesn't make any sense at all. How can someone say, "Look out sir!" and jump in the way of your internal organs and blood boiling? 

 

That's basically like a Librarian waiving his hand, your blood boiling, and someone else, who has a totally different set of insides, pushing you out of the way to be boiled instead... I just don't get it.

The quote in the rulebook is that the new model breaks the direct link needed between the psyker and target (deadly mind lock) and thus becomes the new target. Same thing with cover