Dreadnought powerfist vs. blood talons?

[Helias_Tancred]

I have a question about powerfist vs blood talons on a Dreadnought.

 

Which is better against infantry/personnel?  ... and aren't they both equally effective against armored vehicles?

 

 

Thanks again Brothers.

 

 

[knife&fork]

Blood talons are just better than fists, they are the same with a re-roll to wound.

Nothing more than that.

 

In all but the most extreme cases you'll be wounding on a 2+ so you'll have to decide yourself if you think it's worth an additional 10 pts to re-roll that 1.

 

 

I kinda wish I could take it for 5 pts on a fragioso or furioso lib, they have so few attacks base that it would actually be useful. For the 6A on a DC dread however it's probably not worth it. 

Furioso dread with double close combat weapons falls somewhere between these two. I suppose it could be worth it just to make sure you get a wound from every hit. 

[toaae]

If you're using it to fight a lot of T7+ MCs, then it has its value.

But if that's what you're using it for, better off with a Librarian Dread.

[Helias_Tancred]

And another question with rage and furious charge doesn't that make the DC dreadnought pretty fearsome on his charge attack?

 

I already have two dreads- a furioso that I usually run with the frag cannon, and a standard dread with lascannon, powerfist, and heavy flamer. So I'm thinking do I build my third dread as the DC Dread Cassor, or another Furiosos. Regardless, I want blood talons on either one. But I'm thinking while the DC lacks 1 point on front armor its fierce on the charge!

[Cronhour]

And another question with rage and furious charge doesn't that make the DC dreadnought pretty fearsome on his charge attack?

 

I already have two dreads- a furioso that I usually run with the frag cannon, and a standard dread with lascannon, powerfist, and heavy flamer. So I'm thinking do I build my third dread as the DC Dread Cassor, or another Furiosos. Regardless, I want blood talons on either one. But I'm thinking while the DC lacks 1 point on front armor its fierce on the charge!

Thinking of running one myself, I always dismissed av12 but a full tac squad of mine with rending corbs struggled against a standard sm dread until the dc with power fists showed up.

[Ushtarador]

Too expensive to just add shred in my opinion, I don't take them anymore. Very very disappointed they didnt get the same treatment as the space puppy murderfang.

 

The DC dreads needs a good mean to get into CC, then it's awesome :) They fill another role than the furioso, but they are very good at it for sure.

[Charlo]

I think for DC dreads to work you just have to have target saturation - AV 12 isn't great - but your opponent might ignore it if you have some meatier targets on the field with a potential impact in the same turn.

 

And either way it could be a distraction at least!

[Deschenus Maximus]

I just don't see the point of the DC dread, tbh. Losing frag cannons, 1 point of front AV and 1 point of WS for 1 extra attack and Rage? No thanks.

[toaae]

Frankly, Furioso's without Frag Cannons don't seem to have a place for me. Librarian dreads are straight up better at dealing with high-wound, high-toughness models, and DC dreads are better against multi-wound, low-toughness (<T5) due to their number attacks. No dread is good against hordes in CC, but at least a Fragioso can effectively vacuum them up. But a Furioso with just fists (or talons, if you're into that) doesn't have enough attacks to kill much of anything. At least the DC dread can kill a couple of thunderwolves/nob bikers/ect.

 

The extra armor matters more when getting shot, since there are less things that can hurt AV11+ in combat. Really, it's just the higher WS that's a lot stat.

[knife&fork]

The only DC dread I'd consider now is Cassor, I5 on the charge coupled with character status and 6 attacks is actually decent. 

 

Can get buffed by a nearby librarian as well. 

[Helias_Tancred]

I think for DC dreads to work you just have to have target saturation - AV 12 isn't great - but your opponent might ignore it if you have some meatier targets on the field with a potential impact in the same turn.

 

And either way it could be a distraction at least!

 

I have a fragioso, a lascannon dread, a Land Raider Redeemer carrying my 5 man terminator squad and Captain Karlaen my Warlord, 2 10 man assault companies w/jumpacks, and a tactical squad in a Rhino. I also have one drop pod that I normally drop the fragioso down on turn 1 right in their "soft" area where there infantry is.

 

I'm thinking about buying a Stormraven (tomorrow) and putting remaining unit- my 10 man bolter death company and the new death company dreadnought in it too. With Karlaen I get a re-roll each turn on my reserves so chances are they could get in on turn 2 (finger crossed 50%). Plus the Stormraven could brew things up once its on the battlefield.

 

 

Questions-

 

1.) On the Stormraven I would run hurricane bolters on the sponsons, a multi-melta in the nose and what is the best for the servitor turret? Lascannons or assault cannons?

 

2.) In the Deathstorm booklet it says that the Dreadnought and the 5 man death company are both considered "troops". Does that apply to them all the time? So would Cassor the Damned and Raphen's 5 man death company both be considered "troops" if I place them with my existing Blood Angel army?

 

3.) Could I have 6 terminators and 1 power-armored marine in the Redeemer? ... or if I wanted to do that would I need to "modify" it and make it a Land Raider Crusader?

 

 

 

Thanks.

[Helias_Tancred]

Delete this. Danke.

 

 

[Guest]

yes the DC from the death storm box are troops, provided they are kitted out as described. 

[Helias_Tancred]

yes the DC from the death storm box are troops, provided they are kitted out as described. 

 

and they can only EVER be 5 right? I can't add 5 more to them?

[toaae]

 

yes the DC from the death storm box are troops, provided they are kitted out as described. 

 

and they can only EVER be 5 right? I can't add 5 more to them?

 

 

You have to field them as it says. Basically, does the data slate offer any options at all? Nope. So you have to take 5 and their ridiculous wargear.

[Deschenus Maximus]

The only DC dread I'd consider now is Cassor, I5 on the charge coupled with character status and 6 attacks is actually decent. 

 

Can get buffed by a nearby librarian as well. 

 

Yeah I think the fact he's a Troop makes him sorta ok.

 

 

1.) On the Stormraven I would run hurricane bolters on the sponsons, a multi-melta in the nose and what is the best for the servitor turret? Lascannons or assault cannons?

 

Assault Cannon. Also, don't bother with hurricane sponsons. Too expensive for what they do.

 

2.) In the Deathstorm booklet it says that the Dreadnought and the 5 man death company are both considered "troops". Does that apply to them all the time? So would Cassor the Damned and Raphen's 5 man death company both be considered "troops" if I place them with my existing Blood Angel army?

 

Yes.

 

3.) Could I have 6 terminators and 1 power-armored marine in the Redeemer? ... or if I wanted to do that would I need to "modify" it and make it a Land Raider Crusader?

 

You would need a Crusader, yes.

 

Comments in red.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

The only DC dread I'd consider now is Cassor, I5 on the charge coupled with character status and 6 attacks is actually decent. 

 

Can get buffed by a nearby librarian as well. 

 

Yeah I think the fact he's a Troop makes him sorta ok.

 

 

1.) On the Stormraven I would run hurricane bolters on the sponsons, a multi-melta in the nose and what is the best for the servitor turret? Lascannons or assault cannons?

 

Assault Cannon. Also, don't bother with hurricane sponsons. Too expensive for what they do.

 

2.) In the Deathstorm booklet it says that the Dreadnought and the 5 man death company are both considered "troops". Does that apply to them all the time? So would Cassor the Damned and Raphen's 5 man death company both be considered "troops" if I place them with my existing Blood Angel army?

 

Yes.

 

3.) Could I have 6 terminators and 1 power-armored marine in the Redeemer? ... or if I wanted to do that would I need to "modify" it and make it a Land Raider Crusader?

 

You would need a Crusader, yes.

 

Comments in red.

 

 

Thank you sir.

[Xenith]

1.) On the Stormraven I would run hurricane bolters on the sponsons, a multi-melta in the nose and what is the best for the servitor turret? Lascannons or assault cannons?

Assault Cannon. Also, don't bother with hurricane sponsons. Too expensive for what they do.

You should really preface that with your opinion. Telling someone to unilaterally never take an option that they have never tried is poison to the game

I take the hurricanes and they are pretty good. You pay 30pts for the equivalent shooting of more than 6 marines (84pts). Within 12" they get 10+ hits, 5 wounds on MEQ, or decimating a less armoured squad.

It also means the raven can still shoot 4 weapons after it unloads the missiles. Asscans and hurricanes make it very good anti infantry.

They do take the raven into land raider cost territory, but I run mine as a gunship over a transport. I dont like it hovering.

[Spagunk]

6x TL Str4 against av10 fliers is still a threat considering it has the same range as the AC and multi-melta. However it still didn't stop me from only getting 2 glancing hits off of an ork flier in my last game .

[Leonaides]

Took down a tau big fw flier with hurricane sponsons once... it crashed onto farsight and his crisis suit friends. Best 30pts i ever spent

[Deschenus Maximus]

Too expensive. You can harp on about it being 84 point's worth of Marine tac squad shooting, but that's not a good unit of measure since a tac squad without a plasmagun or other SW wouldn't be able to shoot themselves out of a wet paper bag.

[knife&fork]

It's expensive, yes, but if you've already paid 200 pts for a flyer you might want to make it a bit better at its job.

 

I rarely take the hurricane sponsons, but they do make the raven into a better gunship. Only having 2 guns after the missiles are gone is a bit weak.  

 

For those points however I'd rather take a stormwolf with all its low AP goodness.

[Xenith]

In my opinion it is too expensive.

FTFY

Yes, tac bolters arent great, but that is comparing apples and oranges. This isnt a tac squad this is 30pts to add 2 more weapons to a vehicle. A better comparison is adding sponsons to a predator - you waste the pred's potential for fire multiple weapons by not choosing to add the extra guns.

My argument is that the Stormraven just doesnt have enough firepower on it's own after you shoot the missiles (should be all gone T3). A single assault cannon and multimelta isnt too scary.

[knife&fork]

There was one raven guard player on this forum that ran several of them with sponsons and typhoons. Crazy expensives to me but he seemed happy with the volume of fire he got from each one.

[Xenith]

There was one raven guard player on this forum that ran several of them with sponsons and typhoons. Crazy expensives to me but he seemed happy with the volume of fire he got from each one.

 

Haha, yes, I was going to suggest that, but I didnt want to send Desch off on one...

 

adding another 2 templates is awesome, as is adding 2 krak missiles to the payload. If I played on more 6x4 boards, I'd always go with this too, but I play on smaller boards with more av14.

 

Anyway, drifted massively off topic.

 

It would ne nice to have an option for a single talon on a dread, as discussed by K&F. You really need to get those wounds with fewer attacks.