malorn24 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 So at Istvaan 3 we have Horus complete the culling of 4 legions. Sons of Horus World Eaters Death Guard Emperors Children By culling I mean get rid of those that wouldn't follow the Heresy. Now what about the others Night Lords Alpha Legion Iron Warriors Word Bearers Thousand Sons (although that was done via the Space wolves so lets leave them out for right now) Now Word Bears were quite fanatical and after the razing of that one city (I forgot the name) by the UM I can understand that they wouldn't need many removed from thier ranks. But the rest would all still need culling. Especially the Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors. Did this happen? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Night lords kill each other all the time, Alphas must ask themselves "what does the primarch ask of you?", iron warriors sent men to kill loyalist elements/garrisons (ref. Dantioch), word bearers sent them to calth Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3923148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Alpha Legion? I doubt if even Alpharius knows. But that's the theme BL assigned them, so ho hum. Night Lords? I believe there's a mention in one book that Curze didn't bother purging disloyal elements, because he wouldn't know where to start. but given the general state of the Legion, they probably had one of the smallest 'loyalist' contingents, with any loyalists siding against Horus more in spite and hatred of their Primarch than loyalty to the Emperor. Word Bearers? If memory serves it's mentioned in the First Herertic that potential loyalist factions were removed from the Legion on the sly in the 40 years between the Legion's fall and the outbreak of the Heresy. Thousand Sons? A handful of loyalists did exist (as Battle for the Abyss shows, or are we trying to forget that one ?). but you're right, most of the Legion dies in the opening stages of the Heresy, and the rest have their allegiance defined for them thanks to the blades of the VI and 'just as planned!'. Iron Warriors? These are the traitors with the most loyalist potential imo. There's been little mention of an organised cull that I'm aware of. So we have a Legion that was already highly spread out in isolated deployments and garrisons, so plenty of potential for in dependent loyal formations separate form Pertuarbo's treachery (as seen in Extermination, and I doubt the 70th (?) Grand Battalion were the only unit in such a circumstance). Plus you havce the bitter misanthropic nature of Pertuarbo, so plenty of opportunity for beef between him and his sons, rather than loyally following their father into rebellion. in fact, for a while I was toying with the idea of doing loyal IWs, based around an old IV Legion commander that never forgave Pertuarbo for the edict of decimation (then I realised that would be time not spent on Space Wolves ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3923155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 With the Word Bearers I think it was the Terrans were killed between finding 'Lorgars Truth' and the out brake of the heresy. Which I'm ignoring compleatly in my own Word Bearer background. The Alphas are tough because, while they are a legion of lies and secrets, they are supposedly loyal to the core when it comes to the Primarch(s). However Forge World does suggest that there are more Alpha Legion elements then perhaps even Alpharius knows. Also, arguably, Omegon is working to a different agenda and he has his own guys, so there's a chance they haven't culled at all. In fact just ignore the Alphas, there's to many possibilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3923174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparika Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 From what I read about the Alpha Legion ('Legion' book if I recall the title) they are basically loyalist. Is there any need to remove 'loyalist' element since they decided to fight for an even more greater cause than the emperor. @Hydra: are these background details from Forgeworld horus heresy or from Black Library? Could you tell me which books? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3923175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The Word Bearer stuff, I'm not sure where it's from, but Laurie Goulding was adamant there were no more Terran Word BeRers before he exiled himself from the First Expedition. The Alpha Legion extra elements stuff is from Extermination. The stuff on Omegon though is my own personal interpretion of the events of Serpants Beneath. However, I would say, while what you have said is true post Legion, and Alpharius may be working to the goals set out in Legion, he has cut out the cable (Deliverance Lost) so is probally trying to make an outcome favvourible to himself, and Omegon seems to be working his own thing which appears to be aiding the Emperor (he engineered the White Scars finding out about the heresy and I believe he sent the fake fleet in Scars knowing the White Scars would see through it). Although by aiding the Emperor he is sought of allowing Chaos to win in the long run. Or he has his own plan. So yeah, anything is possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3923198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 From what I read about the Alpha Legion ('Legion' book if I recall the title) they are basically loyalist. Is there any need to remove 'loyalist' element since they decided to fight for an even more greater cause than the emperor. @Hydra: are these background details from Forgeworld horus heresy or from Black Library? Could you tell me which books? I believe (as I haven't read the story in question) that this is brought up in 'The Serpent Beneath' where Omegon is acting against Alpharius. But then I'm of the opinion that the Alphas were conned in Legion, and that the Cabal lied to Alpahrius/Omegon and is secretly evil. But it's also possile that a major chunk of the Legion 'properly' falls to Chaos during the heresy (Warp corruption and all that jazz), and some of the rest will realise this and reassess their allegiance. But whichever way you slice it, it's a cluster when you talk about the XX. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3923202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secrets & Lies Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If the Seventh Serpent is anything to go by, Alpharius is cleaning house presently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3924104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think the Night Lords cleaned house progressively and whenever the opportunity struck. AFAIK, this is the only reference to such events: http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q532/mv8830/ScreenShot2015-01-17at43137PM_zps4e48a7d3.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3924177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arac Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @WordBearers: It is said that the culling of the word bearers was not so much getting rid of non-loyals but getting rid of the incompetent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 @WordBearers: It is said that the culling of the word bearers was not so much getting rid of non-loyals but getting rid of the incompetent. The Word Bearers did have a cull pre heresy, IIRC that's when the brotherhood was reformed to purge all Terran born marines and any loyalists left.. I may be wrong, been a while since I read the Word Bearers novels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arac Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I didn't say that they didn't have a cull. I just meant that it was about competence not loyalty. In Betrayer... Argel Tal to Khârn: "Our Legion culled its ranks in a trickle down the decades, but nothing like the Isstvan Atrocity that Angron is so proud of. Lorgar knew loyalty within the Word Bearers was never in doubt. Competence was a different matter." "Lord Aurelian asked what we should do with the warriors he felt were no longer reliable. Those whose hatred burned brighter than their sense." (Question by Khârn if they were killed. " Not directly. We gave them the mission they craved. They sailed with Erebus and Kor Phaeron, to martyr themselves in glory. "Your Legion was purged on Isstvan III, brother. Mine was purged at Calth." Perhaps what you mean is: In the novella "The Purge" Sor Talgron talks about a (or several) Purge(s) where the WB got rid of their infidels. I guess it references to the same event as the above mentioned "cull in a trickle down the decades". But nothing more is mentioned about that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 At the last weekender ADB commented on how the Night Lords approached a potential purge or turning on the Imperium in comparison to the other traitor Legions and it went something like - for all the other Legions it was this massive thing, turning on your fellow Legions and having elements within their own Legion not feel as strongly about betraying the Imperium whilst for Night Lords "It's like Tuesday" They were gutting each other even when loyal so I don't see a cull taking place. Even someone loyal to the ideal of the VIII Legion was exiled and lost himself on Terra - there's an equal chance that either those not fully dedicated to the direction of the Legion would either have slipped away on their own or just been killed by the rest of the VIII Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
apologist Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I have a vague recollection that the Word Bearers in the Dark Creed series discuss two(?) pre-Heresy culls; one to remove the Terrans, and a later one to remove unwanted Colchisians. Can anyone bear that out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I didn't say that they didn't have a cull. I just meant that it was about competence not loyalty. In Betrayer... Argel Tal to Khârn: "Our Legion culled its ranks in a trickle down the decades, but nothing like the Isstvan Atrocity that Angron is so proud of. Lorgar knew loyalty within the Word Bearers was never in doubt. Competence was a different matter." "Lord Aurelian asked what we should do with the warriors he felt were no longer reliable. Those whose hatred burned brighter than their sense." (Question by Khârn if they were killed. " Not directly. We gave them the mission they craved. They sailed with Erebus and Kor Phaeron, to martyr themselves in glory. "Your Legion was purged on Isstvan III, brother. Mine was purged at Calth." Perhaps what you mean is: In the novella "The Purge" Sor Talgron talks about a (or several) Purge(s) where the WB got rid of their infidels. I guess it references to the same event as the above mentioned "cull in a trickle down the decades". But nothing more is mentioned about that. Having never read The Purge that's doubtful, in the novel "Dark Creed" they go into a bit of detail about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokkorex Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 About the Word bearers culling(s): Anthony Reynolds trilogy Speaks of one culling, ADB:s book(s) speak of another (version? ), and the fw book seem to speak of a different one as well as well. As with most Canon, they're propably all true and false. Personally i like ADB:s version of small purges along the way, culminating in the calth war. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3926679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Bunch of hipsters if you ask me. The first legion was purging before it was cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302136-the-culling/#findComment-3927214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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