gmaleron Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hello once again everyone! As a few of you know I am building a Templar themed army for Horus Heresy and already have made a few of my purchases! That being said I at least will be going up to 2500pts. and wanted to see what you guys thought of it as I am still relatively new to Horus Heresy and Space Marines in general. Idea behind this list is a small, elite strike force with the sole purpose of getting close and personal and murdering anything that gets in their way. As usual any thoughts, comments and ideas are more then welcome and thanks for posting! HQ: -Sigismund -Primus Medicae *w/ Aritificer Armor, Solarite Power Gauntlet TROOPS: -x7 Templar Brethren "Sigismund and Primus Medicae Here" *w/ x1 Solarite Power Gauntlet, x5 Combat Shields, Melta-Bombs -Land Raider Phobos *w/ Armored Ceramite -x10 Templar Brethren *w/ Solarite Power Gauntlet, x5 Combat Shields, Melta-Bombs -Land Riader Phobos *w/ Armored Ceramite -x10 Templar Brethren *w/ Solarite Power Gauntlet, x5 Combat Shields, Melta-Bombs -Land Raider Phobos *w/ Armored Ceramite HEAVY SUPPORT: -Legion Sicarian Battle Tank *w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons -Legion Sicarian Battle Tank *w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons TOTAL ARMY: 2500 POINTS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 You can't take a Knight as a Legion LoW :/ you would need to take an allied detachment (and another knight, 'cause you need 1 knight + draykavak who is a traitor or 2 knights for a knight detachment) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3923709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's incorrect, in book 4 by the entry for Imperial Knights they are listed as LoW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3924234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Answer upon that query soon; just reading the entries myself atm to make sure I dont goof up. Edit: Page 294, Conquest, Allies Matrix in the Questoris Knight FoC: "when using the Allies in the Age of Darkness Chart, the Questoris Knight Crusade Army uses the 'Mechanicum' Line on the chart for determining any relationship of alliance." Thus, they cannot be taken as a LoW for Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3924259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 That does not say they cannot be taken as a Lord of War choice, that only mentions if taking them if you are using them as allies and running them as an independent force, it does not address the fact that they have "Lord of War" listed in their profiles in the 4th book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3924495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Where does it say they are a Lord of War? Titans are lords of war for the army only. The mention of FoC in the sidebar is 'knight', not Lord of War, and Questoris and Cerastus Knights in book 4 have the household rank special rule which forces them to be a HQ/troop/elite etc slot based on the role they play when used as Questoris Crusade lists. There isn't anything which allows Astartes to take Knights as Lords of War, as The LACAL states that only super heavies which are listed as available for Legiones Astartes which haven't been included within the horus Heresy publication yet can be included, What you are doing is trying to get Logan Grimnar to be a Lord of War for blood angels effectively. In Book 3, there are rules for lord of war knights, but those are Tsghmata only options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3924619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I quote Emperor's Teeth from the other thread ... The Knights in book 4 do not have Lord of War in their profile. They have 'Knight', so I'm not sure where you got that from. Nowhere in the Knight army list does it say you can or cannot use them as Lord of War choices in other armies... but this is because they're not Lords of War units and therefore it's simply "no". Before you bring out 'but 40k says I can take 'Knights'!', note that if you use the FoC charts from 40k against your 40k mates, you might get away with this, but in 30k, you're using the Age of Darkness FoC's, and these do not have a Knight choice. In the Auxilia list, it specifically states on page 242 regarding Lords of War that, "In addition, it has access to Super-heavy Walkers from the Legion TItanicus (see The Horus Heresy Book 1 - Betrayal) or Knights chosen from the Questoris Knight Crusade Army list (the Household ranks in this case are not used)." Unless the marine list is amended to state that they can use Knights in this way, they are not a unit the Legions can use. Nothing is stopping you using a Knight army as an Ally (see page 294 of bk4), which gives you access to Household Ranks as well. The only limitation being you'll need two Knights to fulfil the Allies chart compulsory units. that said, i also wanted to use a Knight Paladine in my DG army, but i'll just take Draykavak and use them as allied Knight army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3924637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I appreciate the responses and answers to my questions guys, I will admit I am somewhat disappointed with the fact that Knights can no longer be taken as LOW for a Legion army and because of this I have decided to change my list to not include one at all. I have changed the above list to fit what my now TOTAL army of Horus Heresy will be so please any insight in regards to my list will be appreciated and thanks for posting! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3929135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I like it^^ fluffy templar list! I will admit I am somewhat disappointed with the fact that Knights can no longer be taken as LOW for a Legion army and because of this I have decided to change my list to not include one at all yeah, but tbh, knights are soooo awesome, when your're finished with your fists, you could start a Knights allied army (so you would just need to add another knight and lets rock!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3929342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionofjudah Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 29 bodies, 3 LR's, 2 AA/AT vehicles... at 2500 is going to be a challenge- while fluffy I might be inclined to drop the 2 squads and use the raiders to transport breacher squads and then pop in a blob squad to walk with the vehicles and sit on objectives in your deployment. 3 LR's are hard nuts to crack and theres plenty at this point level that can smack a hole in them. Looks like a fun list though so play it as you will...looking forward to pics Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3930226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 I see what you're saying but I do want to keep this army Templar themed As I am debating adding on an Imperial Fists "Stone Gauntlet" force later on to give me a total of 5000 points for Horus Heresy. There is another option I could do, do you think this would be better: -Drop one of the Land Raiders -Drop the melta bombs from all the squads -Add a second squad of Templars with five combat shields and the one Solarite Power Gauntlet This would give me a total of 38 Templars with two squads of 10 running behind the two Land Raiders and the Secarians providing fire support. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3930282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Note that in Heresy era games, there's no allowance to use two Primary Detachments, nor does it let you "ally in" your legion again. The double FoC of 6th is no longer allowed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3930315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Where does it say that if you don't mind me asking? As far as I was concerned you basically use the rules of 7th edition in regards to Horus Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3930339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Battles in the Age of Darkness, LACAL, pg 9 "Games using the Battles in the Age of Darkness rules expansion use one of a number of potential Force Organization charts presented on page 10, depending on the kind being waged, each reflecting a powerful concentration of military force on the tabletop." Emphasis mine. Page 10 shows that the optional allied detachment is included as part of the Battles in the Age of Darkness FoC rather than being a seperate detachment (As 7th edition understands it). Page 11 also states that it supercedes the rules in the rulebook regarding governing Force Organization Charts. However, reading through the rules, there's actually nothing preventing you from using the Allied Detachment as the same as the primary legion, and there's no actual allowance for you to include different legiones. This takes a bit of getting your head around when I say that - although it provides rules for allied legiones, there's nothing to actually let you ally in the different legiones. It's like saying you can pick up an apple in your left hand and right hand, and then next saying if you have an orange and an apple in your hand, if that makes sense - essentially including a provision for something which cannot legally happen. What this means is that the allied detachment can only be from (in your case) the Imperial Fists. However, as it's still a different detachment it doesn't benefit from the Primary's Rite of War.What on earth you understand by an army only being able to select a single Rite of War and it only affecting the Primary Detachment, and then in the next sentence saying that Allied Detachments can choose another or none at all. The LACAL is littered with 6th edition-ism's however, and needs a desperate rewrite (and not as rewrite as in copying over PDF's, actually rewritten from scratch by someone who knows what the rules are and can double back and check). In short, you're playing 5,000 pt games. This is apocalypse level gaming, and the rules have pretty much already gone out of the window. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3930356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmaleron Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Well thanks for letting me know, really I was only looking at 5000 points to mix things up not necessarily rum them together unless there's an apocalypse game and as you said everything's out the window at that point. In regards to the options for my list what do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302156-2500pts-templars-if-1st-company-updated-1232015/#findComment-3930368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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