Arufel87 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I'm debating which is the most effective transport for this edition particularly when running Baal Strike Force. I'm assuming minimal troops with a special or heavy are the best option as you will be missing out on Objective Secured? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 What else would you be fielding? That's the question. Two Rhinos won't last long if there's no other armour, two Pods will result in isolated units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Well I'm only just starting BAs after a break from the game and I posted a starter list on the other page but don't think anyone gave feedback yet. I want to take a lot of killy jump infantry. Problem is the rhinos would provide mobile cover but the pods would create a better distraction... I don't know which is more effective in a TAC environment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 In my experience 3 pods is far better than 2, because then at least 2 start on the table for turn 1. In this edition I like pods better anyway; rhinos will get you somewhere once, if you are lucky, then they'll die (highly likely). Pods will get you almost exactly where you want; you can even drop them within 3" of an objective and now your opponent will have to kill an armour 12 pod to get you off that objective. And like Jolemai said, if you don't have other tanks on the table rhinos won't get very far at all. If you are running tanks, baal pred's, landraiders, vindicators etc... then that's a different story - but if you are running deep strike or assault units go with the pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I was asking the same question you are and then I found that drop pods suit tactical squads more. Ask yourself what the best heavy weapon for a tactical squad? Easy the heavy flamer in most cases. What gets that heavy flamer into position the best? The drop pod! You can supplement that one squad with a fragioso and a meltacide squad. Though rhino can work well since we have fast rhinos. What the rest of your list look like? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 It really depends on the rest of the list. For me, I have 5 pods already with other various stuff so I have a 10 Tacs in a Rhino and 6 Tacs in a Razorback. Seems like the big thing with Blood Angels now is to use Cassor and 5 Scouts or 2 unit of 5 Scouts to fill out the Troops. I guess it works, but I'm not a fan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I think pod lists are more effective in normal missions while Rhinos do better in Maelstorm. Both are perfectly viable though, go for what ever seems the most appealing. You really notice when playing vs good players that use Rhinos. They block stuff off, tank shock troops off objectives and make it difficult to move around in general. Enemy can't move within an inch of your rhinos, so you can make some pretty big blockades with just 2. Good synergi with jump units as you can provide screens vs heavy assault units then jump over and assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Seems like the big thing with Blood Angels now is to use Cassor and 5 Scouts or 2 unit of 5 Scouts to fill out the Troops. I guess it works, but I'm not a fan. Pretty easy I would say. 5 CCW Scouts with melta bombs on the Sergeant = 60 points. Cassor = 140 points. Put them both in a Storm Raven (200 points). You have your Troop Choices, air-defense and long ranged anti-armour fire in one neat 400 point package. The Scouts and Cassor also form an effective "2nd wave" of close combat units to hit my opponent's backfield the turn after (hopefully) my Death Company and Sanguinary Guard hammer into his lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 OK so would you use drop pods in conjunction with that pricey 2nd wave? I kinda feel dirty not taking a tac squad as its not really fluffy and the opportunity to heavy flamer the xenos is too good to pass up! :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Loving the tac Seems like the big thing with Blood Angels now is to use Cassor and 5 Scouts or 2 unit of 5 Scouts to fill out the Troops. I guess it works, but I'm not a fan. Pretty easy I would say. 5 CCW Scouts with melta bombs on the Sergeant = 60 points. Cassor = 140 points. Put them both in a Storm Raven (200 points). You have your Troop Choices, air-defense and long ranged anti-armour fire in one neat 400 point package. The Scouts and Cassor also form an effective "2nd wave" of close combat units to hit my opponent's backfield the turn after (hopefully) my Death Company and Sanguinary Guard hammer into his lines. See but my worry is you nice stuff is getting whittled down while your "tax" is off the table. I've been having fun with podded Tacs, they're not super cheap but they fill a specific role in my list which is to be a thorn while my sexy stuff jumps up the table. Deal with them and you have 30 dc in your face turn 2, don't and your getting another turn of heavy flamer in your face plus I 5 marines hitting you with bolt pistols in kidneys. Not to mention I stick corbs in the pod with them so the squad and anyone nearby (usually 5-10 melta marines or another tac squad) get Int and Ws 5 if charged, making them durable while your punchy gets in position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 OK so would you use drop pods in conjunction with that pricey 2nd wave? I kinda feel dirty not taking a tac squad as its not really fluffy and the opportunity to heavy flamer the xenos is too good to pass up! My current 1750 point list has 3 drop pods, 1 containing a Fragioso and 2 with meltacide assault squads. This means I can vary what arrives on turn 1 a little depending on what my opponent is doing. A fully meched army would probably see both meltacide squads dropping in to bust armour. However if there were some valuable infantry in the open like Lootaz then I would probably send in the Fragioso to hose them out of cover. The main hammer units of the army are a large unit of DC and Sanguinary Guard (the later buffed by a Priest). They will hopefully hit their targets on Turn 2 after the drop pod units have caused some mayhem. Hopefully this will be the same turn that the Raven arrives to offer some aerial support. I also have a bike squad including grav guns and a MM attack bike to provide a mobile counter to MCs, TEQs and vehicles. On turn 3, the Raven can either continue firing or drop into hover mode to unload the Scouts and Cassor to mop up any remaining threats. If the situation is desparate, I can unload the Scouts and Cassor using the Skies of Fury rule. Both units automatically pass their dangerous terrain tests (thanks to having "Move through cover") but will be forced to stand in the open for a turn before assaulting which is not great. I would probably only take this option if there were serious aerial threats that I needed the Stormraven to deal with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 See but my worry is you nice stuff is getting whittled down while your "tax" is off the table. True, that is a risk. I must admit, I would like to include something to allow a reserve reroll but this army has no "firebase" so a fortification with comms relay is not really a viable option. No list is perfect and at 1750 points there will always be compromises. Ideally I would like to include Astorath, Dante and a few more upgrades like Chapter Banner for the SG but that takes the total well above 2000 points. I could drop the Raven but then I would be short of air defense and my Troops tax would either need to walk or find some other way to get to battle. Now I could drop the Scouts and Raven and put Cassor and a large Tac squad in pods so I have 5 pods but I am still short of air defense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Air defense is my worry as well, I've been toying with a 100pt aegis with quad gun for scouts or a 5 man tac squad with a long range heavy weapon. Or don't run scouts and run. A 75 point vengeance weapon battery with a quad lascannon. Though both games I forgot to bring these and ran without aa and didn't suffer as my punch ate everything on the table pretty much so the lone flyer (storm talon in one game eldar flyer, Crimson tide is it?) in the other didn't do too much of note. I figure flyer heavy lists I would struggle against but even with one Storm raven I'm still likely to struggle against 5 flyers lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Neither. Storm Ravens with Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Grav Pistol Power Axe tacticals in them. Three of them. Yay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Neither. Storm Ravens with Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Grav Pistol Power Axe tacticals in them. Three of them. Yay.thats got to be close to 1200 points though? I'm smelling a formation here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Or don't run scouts and run a 75 point vengeance weapon battery with a quad lascannon. Can you buy the Vengeance quad lascannons if it not mounted on a Firestorm? The stock armaments appear to be a battlecannon or a Punisher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Neither. Storm Ravens with Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Grav Pistol Power Axe tacticals in them. Three of them. Yay.thats got to be close to 1200 points though? I'm smelling a formation here. Yep :) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/301941-a-possible-nasty-ba-tactic/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Or don't run scouts and run a 75 point vengeance weapon battery with a quad lascannon. Can you buy the Vengeance quad lascannons if it not mounted on a Firestorm? The stock armaments appear to be a battlecannon or a Punisher. They don't come with the model unfortunately but if you buy both or visit eBay you can build it and it's a free swap per stronghold assault rules. Though I do think about using the Gatling cannon, at str 5 heavy 20 you have a good chance at glancing anything other than storm raven level of armour to death, certainly forcing jink saves. After all, at bs2 what's better two 5 ups with a reroll or 20 6's to hit? Though for now I'm likly to stick with the lascannon for range and interceptor. If I was playing an army with a fire base or castle up tactics the Gatling would be a viable choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm thinking about just ignoring AA altogether might be best... I mean if you're up against cron air or something similar then a single raven won't do much. But then again my meta is very much in the all or nothing category when it comes to army list selection. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 In Baal I would only run 1 Tac in a pod, and a scout squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Why does everyone seem to be running Cassor at the moment? His loadout is pretty s*** for a drop pod considering he doesn't get a heavy flamer. I can understand people using him for the troops tax but I'd expect him to get shot up in no time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3926712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You answered your own question there, he meets the Troop tax. Whilst his loadout is sub-optimal, he fits better than a Tactical squad in a drop/assault heavy list. I run an Raven anyway so Cassor simply hitches a ride on that and does not need a pod. He is less armoured than a Furioso so being able to charge on the turn he disembarks from the Raven is useful. He is not a wonder unit by any means but if you are running a list where a DC dread would fit better than Tacs anyway, the fact that he is a Troop unit makes him useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3927422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just for pure awesome I hope to be running a pod containing a full Tac squad with Heavy Flamer, Flamer, hand flamer then either a second hand flamer or power weapon. This can drop, burn and bolt the ever living heresy out of some unlucky foe and then be ready to receive the charge next turn. Or if against something that won't charge you (of if there was nothing left)... You can burn them again and then charge with that tasty S/I 5 No idea on points (probably fairly expensive-ish) but i'm sure you'll get some mileage out of the unit! Seems like the big thing with Blood Angels now is to use Cassor and 5 Scouts or 2 unit of 5 Scouts to fill out the Troops. I guess it works, but I'm not a fan. Pretty easy I would say. 5 CCW Scouts with melta bombs on the Sergeant = 60 points. Cassor = 140 points. Put them both in a Storm Raven (200 points). You have your Troop Choices, air-defense and long ranged anti-armour fire in one neat 400 point package. The Scouts and Cassor also form an effective "2nd wave" of close combat units to hit my opponent's backfield the turn after (hopefully) my Death Company and Sanguinary Guard hammer into his lines. Those 400 points are DAMNED efficient. Nice one Karhedronuk! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3927615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just for pure awesome I hope to be running a pod containing a full Tac squad with Heavy Flamer, Flamer, hand flamer then either a second hand flamer or power weapon. This can drop, burn and bolt the ever living heresy out of some unlucky foe and then be ready to receive the charge next turn. Or if against something that won't charge you (of if there was nothing left)... You can burn them again and then charge with that tasty S/I 5 No idea on points (probably fairly expensive-ish) but i'm sure you'll get some mileage out of the unit! Nice looking unit and probably just a smidge over 200 points depending on your exact options but there are a couple of problems with it. If your opponent has meched-up and not left any infantry in the open, those tactical marines are going to struggle to make a dent. Secondly, each of those flamers will fire and be resolved separately under 7th ed rules. This means that a good result from the Heavy flamer may leave its little brothers short of targets. I would be tempted to go Heavy flamer, plama gun, combi-plas. The plasma guns synergise well with the range of the bolters and you will still be able to shoot stuff, even if the heavy flamer clears the nearest 8" of enemy. Secondly, they will give you a bit of bite against vehicles, particularly as the pod will give you a chance to get at the side or rear armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3927632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also IIRC, you need to do separate template weapon separatly. So if you have HF, Flamer and HF, you'll do three different template placing, which will make them useless. The HF + Plasma combo is also what I'm thinking about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302296-drop-pods-or-rhinos-for-tac-squads/#findComment-3927661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.