simison Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I finished reading the Exterminatus fluff book about an hour ago. I shared Corbulo's frustration at being denied a cure to the Red Thirst, and worried for Baal with Dante as we looked over the surviving Hive fleet. Yet it's the last line that made the biggest impact on me. The Sanguinor spoke! Not only does he visit Dante and the Blood Angels off the field of battle, but he actually says something. Which has me curious. I understand that there is an old short story devoted to him and he's the secret reveal in the recent Herald short story. Does the man talk in either of these? Because every reading a couple editions of codices, Rafen's short story crossover with Meros, I was subconsciously convinced he became a mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Is he no longer made out to be an apparition then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I finished reading the Exterminatus fluff book about an hour ago. I shared Corbulo's frustration at being denied a cure to the Red Thirst, and worried for Baal with Dante as we looked over the surviving Hive fleet. Yet it's the last line that made the biggest impact on me. The Sanguinor spoke! Not only does he visit Dante and the Blood Angels off the field of battle, but he actually says something. Which has me curious. I understand that there is an old short story devoted to him and he's the secret reveal in the recent Herald short story. Does the man talk in either of these? Because every reading a couple editions of codices, Rafen's short story crossover with Meros, I was subconsciously convinced he became a mute. Herald being the Typhus one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 No. Story is herald of sanguinius, it covers the creation of the sanguinor when imperium secundus was rising. His name was Alatron or something like that. All reference to who he was was struck from records and a mask made by sanguinius himself was literally melted to his face. And yeah end of the exterminatus book had me surprised to see the sanguinor speak to Dante, pretty cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 @Jolemai - No, he seems to be something warp-ish with his ability to teleport anywhere (said teleport taking the form of a sudden shaft of light that he comes out of). So, I would say half-apparition? @Sama - No, the Herald of Sanguinius...er, what BH said. @Blind - Does Alatron(*cough*Metatron*cough*) speak in that audio short? And, I agree, it was cool to 'hear' him speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Where is that? This year's calendar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 last month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Mind spoilering what he actually says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sure. Warn me if I screw up the spoiler tags because I haven't actually used them before. It's right after the Blood Angels fall back from the Cryptus system. Dante is worried that Baal will fall as he watches over his men disembark from the Stormravens. Light appears behind him and the Sanguinor steps out. The Blood Angels kneel while the Sanguinor walks up to Dante. "With slow, deliberate steps the Sanguinor approached the Chapter Master, wings brushing the bowed heads of the Blood Angels as he passed them. At last the two legends stood face to face, the silence heavy in the air. Without speaking Dante drew back his mask, showing the Sanguinor alone his face, and looked upon the blessed warrior with eyes unhindered by lenses or filters. Finally the question he knew he must ask came to Dante's lips, though it was but a whisper meant only for the ears of the Sanguinor. 'Was it enough - can Baal still be saved?' For long moments there was only silence, and Dante felt sure there could be no answer. Then, for the first time in the annals of the Blood Angels, the Sanguinor spoke. 'There is yet hope.' Also, apparently the Sanguinor's wings are real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Wait, so his identity is no longer this big mystery? I'm not sure how I feel about that. Guess it's time to listen to that short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Wait, so his identity is no longer this big mystery? I'm not sure how I feel about that. Guess it's time to listen to that short. Yes, the recent HH Blood Angels Audio Drama sheds some light on his creation. Thanks Simison, so: Now that we know who he originally was (if he has remained the same marine and hasn't changed a la Phoenix Lords) on top of his wings being real, this just leads to more questions. Is he a being of the Warp? Was he possessed by Sanguinius? Is he a literal Avatar of Sanguinius? ARGH SO MANY QUESTIONS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Awesome :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also, apparently the Sanguinor's wings are real. Where does it say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also, apparently the Sanguinor's wings are real. Where does it say that? "With slow, deliberate steps the Sanguinor approached the Chapter Master, wings brushing the bowed heads of the Blood Angels as he passed them. At last the two legends stood face to face, the silence heavy in the air. Without speaking Dante drew back his mask, showing the Sanguinor alone his face, and looked upon the blessed warrior with eyes unhindered by lenses or filters. Finally the question he knew he must ask came to Dante's lips, though it was but a whisper meant only for the ears of the Sanguinor." Though that could also just be a figure of speech... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Based on how he shows up and knowing when to show up, I'm inclined to believe that the Sanguinor may very well be a creature of the warp. Perhaps he may very well be the first good daemon (kinda like how Draigo is more or less a grey knight daemon).Whether or not it's Tron or if Sanguinius managed to impart part of himself upon his death, I don't know. I'm in favor of the latter theory, but that's because I'm extremely biased and would love to see Sanguinius to come back at the End Times of 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Based on how he shows up and knowing when to show up, I'm inclined to believe that the Sanguinor may very well be a creature of the warp. Perhaps he may very well be the first good daemon (kinda like how Draigo is more or less a grey knight daemon).Whether or not it's Tron or if Sanguinius managed to impart part of himself upon his death, I don't know. I'm in favor of the latter theory, but that's because I'm extremely biased and would love to see Sanguinius to come back at the End Times of 40k. Considering the Primarchs were creatures of the Warp given flesh, and given that Magnus could basically flit around in the Warp in his astral form pretty much at will and Sanguinius was another among the more psychically gifted Primarchs, and that Horus didn't have the ability to snuff a being out of existence like the Emperor could, it could very well be that Sanguinius' spirit survived in the Warp in some form, until a suitable host/champion became available, and his power is slowly changing the host. So basically angelic possession. This would jive with the whole Emperor/Soul Child stuff from the past, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's plausible but unlikely. Also, I've a question. When has this concept of the primarchs being fleshy warp creatures come about? It's something that's only been coming up in the last few months, and I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The horus heresy novels have out and out said it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 One possibility is that the Sanguinor is something along the lines of a Living Saint. Not a warp creature per-se but empowered by one through faith. It's plausible but unlikely. Also, I've a question. When has this concept of the primarchs being fleshy warp creatures come about? It's something that's only been coming up in the last few months, and I don't get it. That has always been part of the fluff for the Primarchs since at least 2nd edition (emphasis is mine). "The Primarchs were practically indestructible and possessed warp enhanced strength. They could scatter whole armies or even the daemonic creatures of the Warp. Some had other powers which do not survive amongst the space marines at all, such as flight and invisibility." This has been further emphasized in the HH novels. First Heretic in particular makes it explicit that the Emperor imbued the Primarchs with warp power (something the Chaos Gods regarded as theft). Their engineering was more than pure genetics and the Primarchs themselves more than just flesh and blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I cant remember which book it was I read recently, but I read them in order so it's probably Scars or Vengeful Spirit, but it says that the Emperor stole power of the warp to empower the Primarchs. That's why he couldn't just remake them when they disappeared. If it was just a matter of science then it would be no problem to recreate them. And that also explains why the Chaos Gods did the whole scattering thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "With slow, deliberate steps the Sanguinor approached the Chapter Master, wings brushing the bowed heads of the Blood Angels as he passed them. Though that could also just be a figure of speech... Um. I'm confused. How is that supposed to imply anything beyond its literal interpretation? The Sanguinor has wings like the Sanguinary Guard have wings. Not being flesh and blood doesn't stop them brushing against things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think its a reference to the wording 'brushing' isnt a word you'd associate with with metal generally. That being said, I agree that it doesnt really mean anything, although the artwork for the sanguinor in exterminatus does look more like actual wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&q=wire+brush&oq=wire+brush But it just means to touch lightly. The materials involved aren't really relevant. I'd say it looks like they're capable of movement, but nothing more than that. And that was a reasonable assumption anyway based on the model. Still looks more like big slabs of ivory or something than actual feathers to me, and they still have that recurved section at the leading edge like the model. Plus, you know, he wears a jump pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I cant remember which book it was I read recently, but I read them in order so it's probably Scars or Vengeful Spirit, but it says that the Emperor stole power of the warp to empower the Primarchs. That's why he couldn't just remake them when they disappeared. If it was just a matter of science then it would be no problem to recreate them. And that also explains why the Chaos Gods did the whole scattering thing. Another way of spinning it is that the Emperor made a bargain with the Primordial Annihilator and then totally reneged on the deal, or part of the deal WAS the scattering, to give these creations an "element of free determination and choice", which is why in multiple books it is implied the Emperor knew one of his sons would try to betray him (and that's why maybe he kept the crazier ones at a distance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "With slow, deliberate steps the Sanguinor approached the Chapter Master, wings brushing the bowed heads of the Blood Angels as he passed them. Though that could also just be a figure of speech... Um. I'm confused. How is that supposed to imply anything beyond its literal interpretation? The Sanguinor has wings like the Sanguinary Guard have wings. Not being flesh and blood doesn't stop them brushing against things. Metal on ceramite would tend to clunk. Not brush. It's scars that goes into how the Primarchs are warp creatures. Just finished reading it, really a great book, Wraight has out done himself :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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