Tenebris Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Truth be told the most funny thing of the pic is that there is the Black Legion cited there alongside the rest. If that is really everything the Imperium has managed to pile up in the Cadian sector to stop us... well THE funny thing is that not only our victory is assured but as it stands it is also mathematical. PS: and let's not forget that the more people die there the thinner the veil gets... so in practice... even if we die to the last man, astartes or xeno, we still win. There will be no stopping the daemons then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm assuming people haven't bothered to look at the Imperial Order of battle, or the fact that the Imperium can rush reinforcements in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Where is the problem. The more Guardmen die the better. It is not our fault that the Imperium so kindly provides flesh for the altar of the Dark Gods. Just think Gree, all those nice rotting Guardsmen zombies... and all you need is a bacteria... blessed by Nurgle of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Where is the problem. The more Guardmen die the better. It is not our fault that the Imperium so kindly provides flesh for the altar of the Dark Gods. Just think Gree, all those nice rotting Guardsmen zombies... and all you need is a bacteria... blessed by Nurgle of course. Well, I can certainly point out the gaping flaws in your logic if you want me to. Some of these comments are quite amusing to me. But at the same time I would rather decline arguing that Chaos lost in the Chaos sub-forum, seeing as it would be an exercise in utter futility and frustration. Suffice to say, I think I've made my position on Abaddon and the 13th Black Crusade clear in past threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 And despite all of that, the current standing off the fluff is that is all the Imperium can do just to stem the tide and that they cannot draw reinforcements because they are fighting on so many other fronts simultaneously. Oh, and it really doesn't help that the entire Segmentum Pacificus has been lost to the Imperium due to the sheer amount of rebellions occuring in it. Actually, I don't understand your position. In the Talon of Horus thread, you said you firmly believe that Abaddon is the great destroyer and something to be feared and that Failbaddon is just a fan misconception. But literally everywhere else you say that he is Failbaddon and that it is a fact of the current fluff. Tis very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hehe, Gree, I know, but I was just joking. It was never meant to be a fact. On the other hands, why have we not tried the old "diseased blanket" thing, and most importantly, why the Alpha Legion has not tried it yet...? Questions, questions... But the current status is not a stalemate, that much I guess we all agree with. The legions of old are descending upon the Imperium of Man, clad in a myriad of colors, worshiping ancient gods and unleashing a war unlike any other. The Imperium is doomed, it will struggle, it will fight back, for every inch, for every sector, as long as there are loyalists alive, the Imperium will fight... but inevitably it will fail, it will collapse and a new order will take place. That much is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 And despite all of that, the current standing off the fluff is that is all the Imperium can do just to stem the tide and that they cannot draw reinforcements because they are fighting on so many other fronts simultaneously. Oh, and it really doesn't help that the entire Segmentum Pacificus has been lost to the Imperium due to the sheer amount of rebellions occuring in it. I would point out why you are completely wrong, but as I said before, it's exercise in futility. Actually, I don't understand your position. In the Talon of Horus thread, you said you firmly believe that Abaddon is the great destroyer and something to be feared and that Failbaddon is just a fan misconception. But literally everywhere else you say that he is Failbaddon and that it is a fact of the current fluff. Tis very confusing. That must have been from a very long time ago then, 2013? Yeah, I used to be a Black Legion player and someone who believed that Abaddon was successful. I spent years trying to defend him on various forums and such. Then I had my beliefs regarding him, completely crushed and gutted in a debate on another sci-fi forum against another poster. It happened about last year and it caused me to completely lose all faith in Abaddon and the Black Legion. It caused me to completely drop my Black Legion army that I had for years. I don't mean to bother anyone here with my personal problems, but it really caused me to do a complete 180 in my views of Abaddon. I honestly don't believe he can have any great success and I honestly don't believe the 13th Black Crusade was a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I've seen you on the Failbaddon train long before Talon of Horus. There's literally an entire thread where you sad he was Failbaddon. Imperial Armour: Warmachines of the Lost and the Damned. Printed in 2014. Page 25, last entry in the timeline. After years of preparation, Abaddon the Despoiler launches the largest of his Black crusades ever to descend upon the Imperium. The defenders of the Cadian Gate are smashed aside and only by the timely redeployment of Space Marine Chapters, Astra Militarum battle groups and Imperial Navy Fleets from war zones far and wide is the total collapse of the sectors surrounding the Eye of Terror narrowly averted. The ongoing 13th Black Crusade appears to have already achieved more than any previous invasion, the Imperium's drastically overstretched forces only barely holding while countless other threats close in on the numerous sectors already stripped of defenders. But by all means, feel free to create a separate topic linking this life changing argument. It literally would not be the first time you tried to explain how Abaddon is a failure when only three of the Black crusades were defeated in a decisive military battle and the rest are all "Abaddon left" and the Thirteenth is "an ongoing campaign the Imperium is just barely holding off." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I've seen you on the Failbaddon train long before Talon of Horus. There's literally an entire thread where you sad he was Failbaddon. If you wish to interpret certain comments in a certain way, then that's your choice. I don't really remember much about that time period, but then against I don't care much about those threads anymore. It was quite a while ago and my beliefs on the hobby have changed greatly since then. Imperial Armour: Warmachines of the Lost and the Damned. Printed in 2014. Oh, Games Workshop certainly wants to make Abaddon seem successful, but that doesn't change certain facts, such as the vast logistical superiority of the Imperium, or the complete dominance of the space lanes at the end of the Eye of Terror campaign. Stuff that GW just chose to quietly ignore in favour of pushing forward their write-up. I'm mean, I appreciate their attempts to not make Abaddon the Cobra Commander of 40k, but I don't think they are succeeding at it. But by all means, feel free to create a separate topic linking this life changing argument. If you wish me to link to the forum and the argument in question, then I can certainly do that, although I don't know what you plan to do about it, unless you want to register on that forum and argue with the poster in question about Abaddon. It literally would not be the first time you tried to explain how Abaddon is a failure when only three of the Black crusades were defeated in a decisive military battle and the rest are all "Abaddon left" and the Thirteenth is "an ongoing campaign the Imperium is just barely holding off." I've already pointed out the manifold flaws in said assertions before. I don't particularly see the point in arguing about it in the Chaos forums. It's like going to the Space Wolf forums and arguing that Russ totally sucked. It's an uphill argument against a forum filled with fans of that faction. I really don't see any point in wasting my time arguing with hardcore fans when I have better things to do with my hobby. I'm trying to just leave it at that, by not trying to start something, but you seem intent on provoking me for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think Kol wants to argue with the guy, just that he's curious (as am I) about what was this argument that so "completely crushed and gutted" you? EDIT: I will say that you then embracing Nurgle in the depths of despair is the Chaos-appropriate thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think Kol wants to argue with the guy, just that he's curious (as am I) about what was this argument that so "completely crushed and gutted" you? Well in short, I pulled up all the same points and assertions that Kol Saresk did, with quotations from A D-B and the Chaos Codex. Every one of my points was either blithely ignored or completely countered with exposing the flaws of each assertion. Everyone supported my opponent in the debate and it was utterly one-sided. Eventually it ended with people accusing me of demanding that Abaddon be this unstoppable doom warlord, like I was some petulant fanboy. I think I just kinda had the epiphany that Abaddon would always be seen as a failure by the wider 40k community, no matter what Games Workshop publishes for him. I just gave up on him after that. It's not a fond memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think I remember all that. IIRC, you switched sides when it became apparent the Black Legion weren't Sons of Horus v2, or that they saw Horus for the failure he is, tabula rasa and all that didn't appeal to you as much as a linear continuation of the Sons of Horus history. But I don't really get how it could be linked to the whole deal with Abaddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think I remember all that. IIRC, you switched sides when it became apparent the Black Legion weren't Sons of Horus v2, or that they saw Horus for the failure he is, tabula rasa and all that didn't appeal to you as much as a linear continuation of the Sons of Horus history. But I don't really get how it could be linked to the whole deal with Abaddon. That played a part in it yeah, but it was that other argument that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Or so to speak. I had thoughts about it before, but that argument was the tipping point for me. It was the other argument on the other forum that was linked to Abaddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I dont find it funny, however I care so little I cant even bother to walk over to my copy of this book and see who wrote it to direct my ire... Let it be said....LEGIONS FOREVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think it's hilarious and will continue to hold it. However, I do it to tease Tenebris, Vespy, and mal if he resurfaces. The difference in this was meant as a laugh and it's blown off again, so including the mod on deck, let's keep our heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't think Kol wants to argue with the guy, just that he's curious (as am I) about what was this argument that so "completely crushed and gutted" you? EDIT: I will say that you then embracing Nurgle in the depths of despair is the Chaos-appropriate thing to do. Pretty much, because I've yet to see a compelling, background-based(from any edition) reason to consider him a failure. The Imperium has only defeated him three times. Four if you count the Heresy. Sure, they won the space battles in the EoT campaign, but that's why the Imperium still lost. Without its worlds feeding its armies, building its warmachines and serving as launch points, the Imperium will die. Might take a few centuries(millennia in the case of Forgeworlds since they can just recycle the dead), but it will die. That's why they don't just run around Exterminatus-ing everything. They can't afford to. They beed those resources just as much as everyone else. So until I see a background-based argument, as far as I'm concerned the Failbaddon is an opiniated movement that holds very little, factual-based ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm too tired at work, I'm not really amused or surprised. Then again I should have the BnC's most negative member award, ADB can sign it himself. You had a great two weeks of wearing that badge, months ago, but you're too secretly lovely to hold onto it for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm too tired at work, I'm not really amused or surprised. Then again I should have the BnC's most negative member award, ADB can sign it himself. You had a great two weeks of wearing that badge, months ago, but you're too secretly lovely to hold onto it for long. Talk about timing ;) And trust me, you're not the most negative member. Even if you do have your moments :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm too tired at work, I'm not really amused or surprised. Then again I should have the BnC's most negative member award, ADB can sign it himself. You had a great two weeks of wearing that badge, months ago, but you're too secretly lovely to hold onto it for long. http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac116/incinerator950/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_24031-hatter-exitama_1389-140519333_zpsceae49d4.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Told you. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm too tired at work, I'm not really amused or surprised. Then again I should have the BnC's most negative member award, ADB can sign it himself. You had a great two weeks of wearing that badge, months ago, but you're too secretly lovely to hold onto it for long. Great, I hit my like limit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Pretty much, because I've yet to see a compelling, background-based(from any edition) reason to consider him a failure. I've already explained it to you. But from past experience, it's become apparent to me that debating with you is a pointless waste of time. If you really do wish to see the argument then I can send you a PM, because I do think I've derailed this thread long enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Like I said, a compelling, background-based argument. I've seen plenty of "I think this is how the background works so that's how it works." So by all means, feel free to PM the link. I eagerly await. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Like I said, a compelling, background-based argument. I've seen plenty of "I think this is how the background works so that's how it works." And yet my statement still stands. PM has been sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Pretty much, because I've yet to see a compelling, background-based(from any edition) reason to consider him a failure.I've already explained it to you. But from past experience, it's become apparent to me that debating with you is a pointless waste of time. If you really do wish to see the argument then I can send you a PM, because I do think I've derailed this thread long enough. If you really want to see failure then look to the Emperor. So much for "no gods". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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