Remtek Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 No scout, but sponsons are slightly cheaper. I don't think they were good before and are still bad. They are fun to play though, if opponent is bringing a fun list as well. I think Rifledreads are superior even though they have a slightly different role, we have so many ways to deal with light infantry. Rifledreads are so reliable redundancy. Sicarian is of course superior if your group plays with FW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 No scout, but sponsons are slightly cheaper. I don't think they were good before and are still bad. They are fun to play though, if opponent is bringing a fun list as well. I think Rifledreads are superior even though they have a slightly different role, we have so many ways to deal with light infantry. Rifledreads are so reliable redundancy. Sicarian is of course superior if your group plays with FW. Trying to replace a Fast AV13 vehicle an AV12 walker can only result in huge amounts of disappointment. Against armor the only thing the Rifleman Dread has going for it are the S7 TL Autocannons, but the Assault Cannon has TL S6 Rending to compensate and against infantry the Baal just puts out ridiculously higher amount of dakka. And it's Fast, meaning it can actually get away when threatened by fast melee units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I said slightly different. They both do well vs MC and AV11 while the Baal wins vs infanty if you can manage to stay in range (something that won't happen a lot of turns, out of range pressure from drop units, or fast moving ones) This is of course biased from our local meta, but find many situations where Baal Pred's are expensive paperweights for 1-2 turns during a game. During 6th i started replacing them with Dreads so i can still open up transports pre assault phase. They can still shoot on infantry in a pinch and will usually have semi useful targets and the 48" range/cover potential equates into better defense a lot of times. I'm assigning melta/assault to deal with high armor, Fragioso/Deathwind Pods/Assault for infantry. Baal's like Rifledreads can shoot on a lot of stuff and be decent at it, they both shine vs AV10/11. There are just so many matchup's that are bad for Baal's. There are lists where it would make no sense to replace Baal's with Dreads i agree, but i don't really play heavy mech much. If i wan't assault screens i prefer something expendable like a Rhino. The Baal has to tip toe around 22" to avoid assaults which makes them difficult to play optimally. With no scout you are loosing a turn of shooting vs many lists, if there is heavy terrain they are annoying to position. There are simply to many things that reduce their effectivness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozenjordan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I used one in a game last weekend. I took a Mech list and it fit well giving supporting fire/ screening my 3 Razorbacks coming up the field. Not convinced it was the best choice against the CSM player but maybe I will try Auto/Las Predator next time I run a Mech list @ 1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For me it's all or nothing with tanks. If you have several other fast tanks running the table the Baal has a better chance of surviving long enough to either reach shooting range or counter-shoot enemy reserves. Outflank was a tough loss even though it never made any sense why the tank had that rule anyway. With the new codex I've been trying drop-pods and sadly haven't found a place for my Baals yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Outflank was a tough loss even though it never made any sense why the tank had that rule anyway. The BA used Baals for scouting duties, roving ahead of the main force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The extra fast and extra sneaky bright red giant tank hah, I dunno, I mean the rule was so nice to have I just never bought the explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Outflank was a tough loss even though it never made any sense why the tank had that rule anyway. The BA used Baals for scouting duties, roving ahead of the main force. It was just Wardian bs that thankfully got removed. You just dont scout with bright red tanks with roaring overcharged engines, as well may send a memo telling the enemy your best surgical first strike elements are being deployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 No scout, but sponsons are slightly cheaper. I don't think they were good before and are still bad. They are fun to play though, if opponent is bringing a fun list as well. I think Rifledreads are superior even though they have a slightly different role, we have so many ways to deal with light infantry. Rifledreads are so reliable redundancy. Sicarian is of course superior if your group plays with FW. Trying to replace a Fast AV13 vehicle an AV12 walker can only result in huge amounts of disappointment. Against armor the only thing the Rifleman Dread has going for it are the S7 TL Autocannons, but the Assault Cannon has TL S6 Rending to compensate and against infantry the Baal just puts out ridiculously higher amount of dakka. And it's Fast, meaning it can actually get away when threatened by fast melee units. I'd much rather have a Rifle Dread over a Baal Pred. 24" range on a tank with AV11 sides and AV10 rear at it's current points cost isn't very good To be honest though, I wouldn't touch any marine mech from the codexes (including Dreads) with a barge pole. Normally too expensive for a fragile chasis and poor to average firepower. No experience with the Forge World stuff, some of that might be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Some of the replies in this topic about fluff justifications are hurting my head. By that definition why would any super human soldier in nuclear powered full body armour painted entirely in one solid colour ever have 'Scout' or 'Infiltrate'? It clearly showed they operated as an outrider force, not that they were some how stealthily getting past enemy lines. Anyway, the Baal sucks now. Avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's me, a space wolf, here to ask The Worst Question: does anyone actually use the flamestorm cannon? I'm guessing it's mostly just there to look pretty now that you can't outflank with it, but I thought I'd ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Some of the replies in this topic about fluff justifications are hurting my head. By that definition why would any super human soldier in nuclear powered full body armour painted entirely in one solid colour ever have 'Scout' or 'Infiltrate'? It clearly showed they operated as an outrider force, not that they were some how stealthily getting past enemy lines. Anyway, the Baal sucks now. Avoid it. Well to be fair, scouts wear different, multi-piece, multi-colored armor and sometimes 'camo-cloaks'. And the only change to the Baal was losing Outflank, which it never had until the Ward codex. It doesn't "suck now" but it's back to being highly situational and limited to certain roles. If you only play 'all-comers' tournament type games, yeah it'll likely never fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I love the idea of it, and the giant drop in points was nice, but it's still vastly overpriced for a tank that only exists to kill medium and light infantry, which are tasks that anything else in the army can do. That said, I'm fielding two of them, but that's largely because I hate packing flying stands to take to the game shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 In my opinion, The key advantage of the Baal was entirely related to slots. You could take three baals and three Preds/Vindies and have 6 wide AV13 wall with a lot of multi purpose firepower Now you cant mass armour, all armour has fallen back somewhat Its still an awesome tank, but one its own, its going to draw all of the anti tank firepower, and it wont survive. Thats not a bad thing in itself, but its different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 In my opinion, The key advantage of the Baal was entirely related to slots. You could take three baals and three Preds/Vindies and have 6 wide AV13 wall with a lot of multi purpose firepower Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Angelus Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 It's me, a space wolf, here to ask The Worst Question: does anyone actually use the flamestorm cannon? I'm guessing it's mostly just there to look pretty now that you can't outflank with it, but I thought I'd ask. Not that i've seen/heard, not under this codex anyway. All the discussion above about getting into range to be useful refer to the assault cannons, now replace that with an 8" range template weapon. Yeah... I have a pair of Baals from 6th ed, and i'm sure they'll come out from time to time, but I completely agree that the switch from FA to HS was a big hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 As an aside, if your opponents are fine with you fielding Siccarans, you have literally no reason to ever field another Baal Predator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Viper Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The fact they have been moved to heavy support was my biggest hurdle, but easily solved with multiple force org. I used to run two or three, bare bones flame storm cannon Baals. I've seen a lot of people say that's not optimal, but I found them to be a cheap nasty first strike unit. The sheer dread factor they seemed to cause my opponents was worth it's weight in gold. Even if they did not make their points back the ability to force your opponent to react to them helped me win many a battle. Almost like a vindicator (mine can't hit the side of a barn door) mine just caused opponents to react to them so drastically that I'd force them to play my game plan not theirs. So I still quite like using them in that fashion. I've also found they make quite a good defensive unit. Keeping it out of site, back field, near a claiming unit on an objective has put a lot of opponents off attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just4uCupCake Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 *cough* Take two sicarans *cough* Legacy of Sarosh/Schism of Mars one with LC sponsons one with HB sponsons *uses jedi mind trick* Forget about the Baal predator these are not the tanks you are looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 If only they could be purchased in squads of 1-3. Still pricey but only taking up a single slot could save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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