shortysl Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The variety of armies present in my local gaming circle is growing week by week. While I love this, the next army I have to face are the Tau. Ordinarily I wouldn't be too concerned about it (I'm a fairly capable player), but the friend that I'm facing has recently acquired three Riptides. Three....... I know they're expensive in terms of points, but I also know they muster an unholy amount of firepower. My response to this has been as many Lascannons as I can field, Company Veterans/Librarian/Company Master in a Land Raider, an Assault Squad, 3 Tactical Squads in Rhinos and a Vindicare Assassin. Any thoughts on altering this list? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrkul Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I can't really speak to specific list combinations fo DA as im still in the building phase and i mainly play IG, but my friend plays Tau and I play against him weekly. He also runs three riptides. Big thing with fighting tau is removing their ability to up BS and remove cover. Markerlights (pathfinders, marker drones etc) should be one of your first priorities; as this will reduce the effectiveness of riptides. Next thing to remove is (if he runs it) buffmander, as this provides alot of buffs to tje unit its attached to. Also mind your deepstrikes, Tau can take intercept on almost every suit. They also have 6inch overwatch range, so nearby units can assist units youre charging. Buy Tau are terrible once youre in melee, theyre also easier to deal with at ranges 36 inches or greater. Hope this helps. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I played any extremely similar list last weekend against a one Riptide Tau list, although I soundly destroyed him it was as much luck as anything. That and I played the mission better, VPs 7 to 2. :) I had Zeke, GWCS with 5PGs in a LR Helios(WW), three tactials and PGs (5) in TLLC razors, two Whirlwinds, one TLLC Mortis dread and a Vindicare assassin too. I killed his RT by turn 2 with my whole army shooting at it, then concentrated my plasma on his suits that DSd in my back field, even with seven TLLC and the mighty Assassin I struggled to hurt his armour/RTs. I only got his RT because of first turn he hadn't gotten his 3++ off and second turn he failed his charge up roll. Good luck vs. His spamming them ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 What about just punching them with terminators or death wing knights? I realize you've got to get close, and that's the main issue, but even tau should have trouble cracking a land raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 They normally do struggle with LRs but can DS a tonne of melta if they plan for them. If you can catch the RT then fists, hammers and maces are the bomb, unfortunately they can out manouver LRs easily. I spent a whole game chasing one while he killed everything else I had on the table. The best unit Ive used for killing RTs is RWCS, you can force a tonne of 3++ saves with talons and actually catch them in CC. If you can muti assault something softer and put most of your wounds on them you can force the RT to flee the table. Situational at best though. Unfortunately one decent Ion template on the way in and they evaporate too ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngeal Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Deathwing knights (if they can catch the Riptide) will tear it to shreds. Black knights are another good suggestion. I literally play against my buddy's Tau list every weekend; Deathwing vehicle will be worth it for your LR, make him reroll any Explodes! results. Picking off marker drones and pathfinders is a MUST do. I think the best target for your lascannons are any broadsides that your opponent brings. They are T4 with 2 wounds a piece, so the lascannons can make short work of them, whereas the riptide is a monsterous creature with T6 (or 5, idk) so it's out of instant death range with the cannons. On top of that it will get a 5++ (possibly 4++ if he nova charges) and a 5+ FNP. With all this it is really frustrating because he should save more than half of the wounds assigned to him. Definitely get him in CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Is Nova Charge 4++? My regular Tau opponent calls it 3++. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngeal Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 According to my guy it nova charges to a 4++, but some quick research points to him being wrong. That makes it even harder to stick a lascannon shot to him. It's too many eggs in the same lascannon if you ask me. I'd either try to bring the riptide down in CC or hit him with something like assault cannons to give you a chance to take him down. Also force weapons. Try equipping a librarian with terminator armour and a force axe, and hide it in a unit of deathwing knights. OR a biker librarian with a force axe and a unit of black knights to escort him. IF he can get through a hit with force active then you can kiss the Tau goodbye. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3927984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyocum Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Nova charge is a 3++, and it's a T6, 5W model. Riptides are tough to get rid of, but lascannons, after you wipe the broadsides and any hammerheads, will do the trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928014 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larhendiel Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Allied unit of Master of the forge sitting in a Land Raider Achilles with a unit of scouts. 3+ to fix, 5+ it will not die in melta+lance resistant av14 can with 3 multi-meltas (you do buy that extra one) and mobile thunderfire cannon Oh btw this tank is next to impossible to explode by one lucky shot. Or yous imperial remedy to all kinds of sickness spam him a knight or two ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If he's fetching Riptides then your lucky coz there won't be any elite slots for his other stuff Riptides Suketh in combat and will run away as soon as you say Boo to them To get round the 3+ invun take a banner and take the DS for +2 combat resolution take a Librarian and use Force for insta- kill (By the way Force stops the FNP roll as well due to the instant death) If your charging them with terminators then get some bikes in there to run them down Kill all pathfinders 1st next all marker lights Tau WS is designed round getting Buffed Whirlwind for the Pathfinders is your best bet if not 2 has ignores cover ap5 shell and those skanky fish heads have only a 5+ save My regular Tau opponent runs a country mile from the Black Knights & Deathwing Knights your biggest issue is catching them as they can do a mega jump as part of their nova charge and don't get hung up on interceptor coz if there firing in your movement phase its without marker support and they can't fire the same gun in their shooting phase. Also they need to Nova charge in the movement phase I believe so start of game there at a disadvantage Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Maybe I missed it but... Nobody mentions Ravenwing Black Knights? Rad launcher, -1T TL Plasma salvo, hitting on 2+ (3+ TL is the equivalent almost of 3+) wounding on 2+... That means a 5 man squad (4 plasma, 1 RWGL) will deliver 5,5 wounds to a riptide, which would end up on 2 wounds IF he has 3++ As of lascannons, I'd say its a waste. Assuming BS4, you need 5 of them for a wound!!! 4+,2+, 3++ A heavy bolter on the other side, you need 12,5 shots...so 3 HB = 1 wound (4+,5+,4+) TL ML (aka speeders), you need 3,5 shots (a couple of speders) for a wound. (3+,2+,4+) This is turning out waaaaay too long for what I intended so... TL;DR For 1 wound on a T6 riptide you need: - 5 RWBK with 4 plasmas and 1 RWGL (and you get 2 wounds) - 5 lascannon shots - 12,5 HB shots - 3,5 TL missile shots If you sinergize (using the rad grenades, cast bad luck with a libby, etc) it only gets better. Hope it helps! The way I'd go: 5 x ML speeders (10 shots per turn, 3 wounds) 2 x 5 RWBK (4 wounds) 1 x libby for bad luck or twin linking the speeders Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You need a PFG or 2 my most effective loadout when up against Tau is 2 * RWCS full FNP Champ each 1 BOD with Libby LvL 2 PFG force axe reduce cover buff Deathwing Knights Land Raider Crusader Whirlwind 2 Typhoons 2 * Sniper squads Pyro on 1 Divination on the other They can't handle Psykers at all Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The variety of armies present in my local gaming circle is growing week by week. While I love this, the next army I have to face are the Tau. Ordinarily I wouldn't be too concerned about it (I'm a fairly capable player), but the friend that I'm facing has recently acquired three Riptides. Three....... I know they're expensive in terms of points, but I also know they muster an unholy amount of firepower. My response to this has been as many Lascannons as I can field, Company Veterans/Librarian/Company Master in a Land Raider, an Assault Squad, 3 Tactical Squads in Rhinos and a Vindicare Assassin. Any thoughts on altering this list? 20 - 30 black knights will send him packing. Well, 10 + a bunch of melta/plasma armed bikers at least. Other things you can do are veterans with plasma/melta configs and melta bombs. A lot of people forget that you can use melta bombs against MC's now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Lots of great input, thank you all. I had thought to leave bikes out as I know Tau have Ignores Cover up the wazoo, but maybe I'll have to stack my Fast Attack with Bikes after all. Same with Deathwing of any type; expensive AP2 magnets. There's plenty of food for thought here, and we're doing Tactical Objectives so he won't be able to stay static on me if he wants those extra VP's. The game is on Saturday and I'll update this thread with results and thoughts post-match. Thanks again everyone! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Your list looks like something I would absolutely suggest. It really depends what the Tau list is, they can find a fair bit of AP2 and Ignores cover, so Terminators and Bikes can run into trouble if you don't get lucky with rolls (as in, your opponent missing). I find that the Tau are best dealt with when you have lots of targets for them to shoot at. If you have too few, it's easy for them to systematically focus fire each unit until their combat effectiveness is negligible. A librarian with Psychic Shriek is AWESOME against things like Riptides/Broadsides, given all of Tau's low initiative, you can get away with running a Force Axe on a Librarian for Force against those multiwound models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3928669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'll keep it brief. The Sons of the Lion were all but annihilated. Abysmal dice rolls on my part coupled with exceptional rolls (and ridiculous special rules) on his part saw my warriors cut down in droves. I will report to the Chaplains for chastisement Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3931236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Any lowlights besides the dicing? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3931417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The way I have always taken on Tau with my standard mech heavy greenwing lists is just use rhinos to control LoS and firelanes and play objectives, especially if the dice aren't favoring you. Works out pretty well usually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3931488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Particular lowlights were my Devastator Squad failing their Morale check on Turn One; fortunately they didn't quite reach the board edge but it put them severely out of position for the rest of the match. Turn 3 saw 30 Tactical marines and 3 Rhinos pared down to 18 Marines and a single Rhino, all to Pulse Rifle fire. My Company Master (with Artificer Armour) rolled 3 ones in a row for his Armour Save, again to Pulse Rifle fire. The only real highlights were his Stealth Team fleeing off the board after just a single casualty and my Predator surviving 10 Seeker Missile hits unharmed because it was sat in cover. I am bloodied but unbowed. We will have vengeance. Apologies for the lack of a more detailed account. This game hit me hard; it's been along time since I've suffered such a complete drubbing, and it's still left me in a bit of shock I have an Apocalypse game coming up on the 11th February. It's a joint Grey Knights/Dark Angels taskforce. I'll try and get our 'referee' to take some more comprehensive notes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3932001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Too many people I've seen play to eliminate the big stuff 4 wounds on a riptide means its still firing back at you while 5 dead pathfinders means its still firing back at you but at reduced ballistic skill and doesn't have ignores cover.. 5 dead fire warriors means 10 less pulse rifle shots & killing the drones on a Broadside team will greatly reduce its firepower and all of this will force Leadership checks and given that most Tau hug the Back there generally straight off the board. I have to say though until I bought a Whirlwind my regular Tau opponent used to spam fire warriors & pathfinders and it was near on impossible to dig them out. Thankfully 7th has changed a whole load of things and sitting behind a Aegis doesn't work in mission based games generally The thing with Tau is while the big long range stuff is a pain to an extent its manageable what I can't manage is big long range stuff buffed to ignores cover + 3/4 Ballistic skill or 10 Fire Warriors buffed to BS5 with an Ethereal for the extra shot (30 S5 Shots hitting on 2's wounding on 3's) or the Broadside Missile Team buffed to hell with a drone controller on the commander so their hitting on 2's. Even with a save the sheer volume of buffs & shooting grinds you down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3932244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Too many people I've seen play to eliminate the big stuff 4 wounds on a riptide means its still firing back at you while 5 dead pathfinders means its still firing back at you but at reduced ballistic skill and doesn't have ignores cover.. 5 dead fire warriors means 10 less pulse rifle shots & killing the drones on a Broadside team will greatly reduce its firepower and all of this will force Leadership checks and given that most Tau hug the Back there generally straight off the board. I have to say though until I bought a Whirlwind my regular Tau opponent used to spam fire warriors & pathfinders and it was near on impossible to dig them out. Thankfully 7th has changed a whole load of things and sitting behind a Aegis doesn't work in mission based games generally The thing with Tau is while the big long range stuff is a pain to an extent its manageable what I can't manage is big long range stuff buffed to ignores cover + 3/4 Ballistic skill or 10 Fire Warriors buffed to BS5 with an Ethereal for the extra shot (30 S5 Shots hitting on 2's wounding on 3's) or the Broadside Missile Team buffed to hell with a drone controller on the commander so their hitting on 2's. Even with a save the sheer volume of buffs & shooting grinds you down. Very true sir! This in particular is why I love whirlwinds! Pathfinders got you down? Don't sweat it! 2+ cover save guardsmen annoying you with their adl? Don't fret it! THE ALMIGHTY WHIRLWIND IS HERE TO SAVE THE DAY! Alternatively, I play mostly death wing, so Belial +10 terminators with a heavy flamer and a cml are in almost every list. All the small at.s fire and flamer goes after a dug in lighter infantry squad, the XML shoots at the rear armor of something. Alternatively, heavy flamer one squad so its nearly dead and shoot everything else at another squad.out in the open. With no scatter deep strike it isn't incredibly hard to pull off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302379-to-fight-the-tau/#findComment-3932542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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