Scimitar Jetbikes Anyone using them?

[PastelAvenger]

So I'm hoping to get some ideas from people on what they think of Scimitar Jetbikes. I'm thinking of running a unit of 6 in my Alpha Legion.

 

But before I make the huge monetary commitment I'm wanting the input from you delightful people.

 

Here is what I'm looking at running at 2k, 2 Power Weapons 2 Plasma Cannons and a Sergeant with a Power Fist and Power Dagger.

 

Cheers

 

Pastel

[Slips]

I've put some thought into making some very nasty Jetbike squads. However, the only thing stopping me is, as you said, the monetary investment required to get them.

 

That said, I'd run them in a squad of 6 or 9 (2 and 3 Special Weapons Respectively - what they are is up to you) with a Primus Medicae for FNP and a Sarge to Tank Challenges if needed.

 

The Primus especially can be very Nasty since he'll have a 2+ Armor, 5+ Invulnerable, T5, Jink, FNP and a wide variety of Wargear Options.

 

For the Jetbike Squad itself, I'd get Squad Wide Melta Bombs to deal with any high AV units. The rest could be kept the way you've planned it out.

 

I wouldnt lock myself into the Plasma Cannon Choice since it still has Gets Hot! due to the prevalence of Armored Ceramite, a Multi-Melta is of questionable use; though if you know you'll be playing Knights on a regular basis, they make for a pretty good choice. Volkite Culverins I like a lot (just cuz) because of 4 shots each with Deflagrate. Sure its only Ap 5 but the S6 helps a lot on the wounding side of things. Just magnetize them.

 

If you really wanted to power game them, Iron Hands (Inviolate armor applies) or Imperial Fists (BS 5 Heavy Bolters) would be decent choices as well; though Alpha Legion is the most flexible since you can give them scout, infiltrate or Tank Hunters.

[PastelAvenger]

Thanks for the thoughts, this may have been an oversight on my part but I didn't think a Primus Medicare could take a Jetbike?

 

Finding the points for squad wide Melta Bombs is pretty wise as they then become Anti Troop and Anti Tank.

 

Alpha Legion re my boys so I'm definitely sticking with them and as you pointed out I am able to adjust tactics to make them more effective.

 

My Main opponents are going to be Armoured Dark Angels, Foot Slogging Night Lords and Infiltrating Raven Guard.

[Theredknight]

I'm never keen on plas cannons on these guys, if you have to jink, they are useless, at least with the volkite you can still get 4 snapshots.

And all melta bombs is good, considering you can turbo 24". If they are played right, you can get a load of melta bombs on some armour the second turn they are there..

 

I never liked reserves, if I play them I use ec rules, which guarantee my reinforcements arriving a turn of my choosing (usually 2) such a big skimmer unit can be well hidden and hopefully avoid t1 shots, but if some are coming there way, they aren't going for your transports at least

[PastelAvenger]

I forgot about the blast on the Plasma Cannon, Volkites it is then :-)

[Slips]

Well, since your up against Armor (DA) and Massed Bodies (NL and RG) the Volkite Culverin would be the most versatile option especially if you're taking Melta Bombs squad wide to deal with any AV 14.

And yes, a Primus Medicae can take a Jetbike. Looking at the Consul entry in LA:CAL only the Master of Signal, Vigilator and Moritat cannot take a Jetbike.

Which means you could take a Jetbike Siege Breaker and give them all Tank Hunters (since it only applies to heavy weapons, which they all have).

...a real move would be a jetbike deathstar. It WILL cost a lot of points but it has the potential to bring a LOT of pain:

Librairan, Jetbike - Aim for the Invisibility Psychic Power

Primus Medicae, Jetbike - I explained why above

Legion Champion or Chaplian, Jetbike - Makes them an even scarier CC unit

9 Man Jetbike Squad - Melta Bombs, Sarge with Stuff and 3 Culverins.

Rolling a unit like this only requires 4 3man jetbike squad purchases and a bit of converting and is a GREAT points sink if you're trying to get your list to the Apocalypse Points level.

Your Jetbikes will have a bunch of Psychic Powers to help them, 2+ armor Saves, T5, FNP (only D, Force and Murderous Strike or equivalents can negate it now) and your HQ's will all be TEQ units with double to triple the Mobility of a Terminator.

You will have 12 Culverin Shots and 27 Heavy Bolter Shots base for shooting.

[PastelAvenger]

I think the Primus is definitely the way to go here.

 

I think 9 might be a bit too much and would become a bit difficult to hide effectively.

 

I am looking at apocalypse but that is way way in the future, my first focus is 2k, have few games around that points level then look to expand.

 

Thanks for the input you've been a great help.

[Slips]

Yeah 6 + Hq is the safest number 9 is the pain-train ":cuss it I have a ton of them" number :p

[depthcharge12]

The answer is yes. Hell yes. You should take them.

 

I've actually had success with plasma cannons on them, and volkites do great, but I like something with more punch. Gets hot doesn't occur as often as you'd think.

 

Melta bombs are a must too.

 

I just played a game with 3 of them with a plasma cannon and melta bombs. They caused some damage and lost one guy, but then they charged and proceeded to tarpit a large tactical blob for 2 turns until I brought in another squad to kill the tacticals. Next time I will throw on power weapons :D

 

6 is fantastic but I'm gearing towards a command squad with a praetor all on Jetbikes (can you tell I'm 1st legion?) as they're devastating in cc and can soak up a ton of hits.

[Theredknight]

If you have the spare fa, try to split your squads, if one guy jinks, they are all on snap shots

Ideally 3 groups of 3, or a 6 and a 3?

I was thinkng of investing some more for my ec. I have 6.. Another 3 would be pretty hard hitting as support

[PastelAvenger]

Can't really afford the Fast slots to run multiple units, my army already has a maxed Headhunter squad and I'm looking at bringing along some Javelins. With the huge distance they can move and charge the snap shots don't really concern me.

[Theredknight]

True, once they are across there, those melta bombs will help a lot..hopefully!

[Hesh Kadesh]

Consider this for a character;

 

Primus Medicae, Scimitar, Boarding Shield = 140pts

 

You get a 2+/6++ with FNP 5+ and a Cover Save from Jinking to tank shots (yes, you can jink when in a squad that cannot jink - although only the characters with that rule get the save), plus Defensive Grenades.

[Theredknight]

It's certainly got me thinking any using them again.. 6 of these with 2 volkites all with melta bombs could be great, especially when you add a medicae in there.

They'd defo be a bullet magnet though, perfect targets for a sicaran..the fnp helps a lot in that case. So that would be your primary target.

 

Il have to glue the other 2 together, and order a 7th lol

[PastelAvenger]

This is my problem, they aren't truly anti tank because the only way you're going to open one up is in assault and they don't have the same punch as true assault troops as not everyone has a power weapon.

 

Sicaran's chew up everything and will only have 1 possibly 2 rounds of shooting before these would be on it, no jinking would hurt them but as you said the FNP would help with that.

[Theredknight]

True, you have other units to distract them with combat. Sicarans main cannon is ap4, rending, so you can fnp a couple, the other shots you have a 2+ armour save, and then fnp.,which would help a lot!

 

If they don't have a sicaran, your can strike plasma preds, or those rapier units at the back maybe. Depends how they play I guess

[PastelAvenger]

If I use Infiltrate with AL there is going to be a lot of units that will hopefully pose a threat. I'm completely sold on running a unit of 3 to 6 with a Primus.

 

Backing them up with 2 to 3 Javelins should prove enough of a distraction

[Caustic63]

Interestingly Sky Hunter Jetbikes got a huge buff from Betrayal to the Crusade Legions Army List book, gaining a TEQ armour save. This took them from being mediocre to being actually pretty good units. Just out of curiosity, is anyone in this thread still using the old version?

 

Most of us can agree however that they are cool looking models, and are an entirely unique feature to the Astartes Legions compared to the 40K version. TBH I've liked them from the beginning and looked for reasons to use them, and the update provided all the more reason to do so. When including Jetbikes in my army (which is Emperor's Children atm) I consider the following rules worth following:

 

1) Standard Squad size is either 6 or 9. Three could be effective but the tax is so high its not worth it compared to MSU Outriders, which don't pay any tax at all (making them an amazing unit that for some reason few people use) and can be universally equipped with special weapons. Jetbikes get upgrades for every 3 squad members, so all squadrons chosen should be multiples of 3.

 

2) Jetbikes are primarily armor hunters with Meltabombs & Multimeltas or Torrent Infantry killers with Heavy Bolters and Volkites. In the former role, they are effective because they are highly mobile allowing them to get side armour shots and quickly assault dangerous vehicles. Even in the event that vehicle has Armoured Ceramite the Multimeltas are far from useless, since they still have high strength and low AP. In the latter role they are effective but other units do it better since you don't need to be mobile to shoot off lots of Heavy Bolters.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Not really. It made them more durable in an assault, but these should not be in an assault with anything that's not vehicular. Firing at them with save ignoring shots left them facing jink still to get through.

 

The things they are more capable at surviving include Banestrike shots, Scorpius missiles, Rad Missiles... None of which were especially effective against them, so were rarely targeted at, so you can't even use the argument that they could tank those shots without being forced to Snap Shot. Now they're even more unlikely to be targeted by those, and AP2, unless it ignores cover, has better targets to be shot, such as Scoring FNP Terminators.

 

On the unit which could have made use out if - a Command Squad - they already have AP2. If you don't get what I mean, imagine giving some dude a Bolt Pistol, and BS10 (that's not Cypher), but no other special rules that make shooting worthwhile. It doesn't make them a good shooter, because they're still only given a Bolt Pistol.

 

I'm not complaining about being made more tanky, that's always fantastic, but it's not the buff it is on other targets (Palatine Blades, or Rampagers, or Medusan Immortals, for example).

[PastelAvenger]

I'm not sold on Multi-Meltas, it seems every man and his tank has Armoured Ceramite. Yes they still have High Strength and AP1 but with one :cuss they aren't getting through a tanks armour. This is down to FW handing out Armoured Ceramite like it's candy.

 

Although you won't get an explode result Volkites can threaten up to AV12 and with 8 shots and then a charge you're bound to get a destroyed tank. Just don't throw them at Landraiders as it will end in tears.

 

Sicarans, Contemptors, Venerators then any other tank seem to be the order of business for these.

[SillyDreadnought]

I've had success with bare bones Sky Hunters with melta bombs hunting down tanks. While my own tanks shove their faces in the faces of the enemy tanks to distract them from the imminent melta-bombing. Doesn't always work, but it's fun when it pays off.

[Emperors Teeth]

I really ought to look at getting a unit. The only thing stopping me is a the lack of mkII pilots. Even if I use 'The Head of the Gorgon' Rite of War I still get one Fast Attack choice (of which I currently use none).

Iron Hands ones are effectively Toughness 6 at range, and with the bonkers variety of saves they can get as mentioned above would be hell to remove from the board.

Oooh I'm selling myself on them. Toughness 6, 2+ Sv.

[PastelAvenger]

It would be pretty hard to remove a T6 2+ unit, if you take 6 of them I cant think of much that they won't be able to shrug off. Even Plasma Guns will have to get really close and there is no chance with the distance these things move.

 

I'm totally sold on these and will be including some in my next purchase. I am going to magnetize the front gun though.

[SillyDreadnought]

I really ought to look at getting a unit. The only thing stopping me is a the lack of mkII pilots. Even if I use 'The Head of the Gorgon' Rite of War I still get one Fast Attack choice (of which I currently use none).

Iron Hands ones are effectively Toughness 6 at range, and with the bonkers variety of saves they can get as mentioned above would be hell to remove from the board.

Oooh I'm selling myself on them. Toughness 6, 2+ Sv.

Just say they're survivors from Clan Avernii, they got all the new shiny toys afterall :P Would justify mk.4. It's what I'm doing!

[sedobren]

About the models: have you ever tried to mod the gw's marines bikes?