Quixus Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I really can't imagine what to do with this iconic land raider variant. While its weapons have longer range than the other two non-FW varinats the transport capacity of only 10 models, means that you cannot put an IC with any squad in TDA and Assault/Tactical Terminators are the only units that can take it as a dedicated transport, everyone else has to block a HS slot as well. On top of that the vehicle lacks frag assault launchers. So have you found a niche for the poor old phobos or are the other two variants strictly preferable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Super reliable firebase with scout cargo for bubble wrap, scoring and counter charge? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3930579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Mine's gone the way of ebay..needs must :/ I know it still has a place in mech / AV 13 strong lists, but with a jump - pod - biker list it's more of a liability, same for the other variants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3930593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Super reliable firebase with scout cargo for bubble wrap, scoring and counter charge?Hmm, it could work but I don't see how two TL lascannons are better than one TL lascanon and two normal lascannons (Predator Annihilator) and If you use the scouts as bubble wrap you are not using the LR as transport, which is kind of the USP of all the codex land raider variants. If all you want is a shooty tank you can take the ridiculously cheap Sicaran. Mine's gone the way of ebay..needs must :/ I know it still has a place in mech / AV 13 strong lists, but with a jump - pod - biker list it's more of a liability, same for the other variants.Yeah, that was my thought as well. Even in mech lists I'm not sure what to do with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3930596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Yeah, that was my thought as well. Even in mech lists I'm not sure what to do with it. Yeah like you say, other things are shootier and cheaper and AV14 isn't a big haul over AV13 with the weaponry around these days. And the other variants are assault-friendly; the phobos does seem pretty redundant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3930640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's sad, but it is really the worst out of all 3 Raider variants, and that is saying a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3930917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Super reliable firebase with scout cargo for bubble wrap, scoring and counter charge?Hmm, it could work but I don't see how two TL lascannons are better than one TL lascanon and two normal lascannons (Predator Annihilator) and If you use the scouts as bubble wrap you are not using the LR as transport, which is kind of the USP of all the codex land raider variants. If all you want is a shooty tank you can take the ridiculously cheap Sicaran. Well you asked for a use, that's the best I can think of. AV14 is a little better than all of you give it credit for. If your meta is full of taudar you'll notice that there's a lot of ignore cover S7 which you now can cancel out completely with at least one scoring unit that can also work as fire support. A scoring, passive, landraider is a major pain in the rear for eldar and tau in particular as they want to stay well away from you. The AV14 box can also be used to hide your more fragile vehicles (AV 11-13) if you don't go first. If your land raider starts soaking lance and such then there's much less fire that ignore FnP and 3+ saves directed at your dudes or other aggressive units. Massed melta can be denied by the cargo. I'd actually consider the phobos the best raider as it is the most likely to survive the game during normal use. A crusader or redeemer easily becomes a glorified (250 pt) drop pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Super reliable firebase with scout cargo for bubble wrap, scoring and counter charge?Hmm, it could work but I don't see how two TL lascannons are better than one TL lascanon and two normal lascannons (Predator Annihilator) and If you use the scouts as bubble wrap you are not using the LR as transport, which is kind of the USP of all the codex land raider variants. If all you want is a shooty tank you can take the ridiculously cheap Sicaran. Well you asked for a use, that's the best I can think of. AV14 is a little better than all of you give it credit for. If your meta is full of taudar you'll notice that there's a lot of ignore cover S7 which you now can cancel out completely with at least one scoring unit that can also work as fire support. A scoring, passive, landraider is a major pain in the rear for eldar and tau in particular as they want to stay well away from you. The AV14 box can also be used to hide your more fragile vehicles (AV 11-13) if you don't go first. If your land raider starts soaking lance and such then there's much less fire that ignore FnP and 3+ saves directed at your dudes or other aggressive units. Massed melta can be denied by the cargo. I'd actually consider the phobos the best raider as it is the most likely to survive the game during normal use. A crusader or redeemer easily becomes a glorified (250 pt) drop pod. Granted, Tau are the most likely to struggle with AV14. Fusion blasters - I tend to target suits early on, so not a problem - so only the railgun and charged S9 riptide pie-plate can do harm. As for Eldar, maybe it's just me but there's nothing like lance or S10 AP2 to pop a raider in one shot. Necrons have gauss. SM & CSM plenty of melta, orbital bombardments, vindicators etc. Orks will struggle at range unless using massed lootas but they can smash it up close if they want. And so on. But the thing that picks at me is what am I getting in return? The Phobos' fire output isn't great. And it needs to be kept back at a distance. Using it to sit on an objective is a mammoth investment for one objective and an oppo seeking to contest the BA DZ will likely use units with high S melee weaponry. As for the assault variants, the advantage over pods is that the passengers are protected up to the moment they assault. A turn two assault is often possible, assuming you get there though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It's the quintessential Space Marine unit - an expensive jack of all trades. It's better than a Crusader or Redeemer as a back row bunker, but the Proteus does that job just as well, and for the price of the Phobos you can take an Augury Web on it too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Granted, Tau are the most likely to struggle with AV14. Fusion blasters - I tend to target suits early on, so not a problem - so only the railgun and charged S9 riptide pie-plate can do harm. As for Eldar, maybe it's just me but there's nothing like lance or S10 AP2 to pop a raider in one shot. Necrons have gauss. SM & CSM plenty of melta, orbital bombardments, vindicators etc. Orks will struggle at range unless using massed lootas but they can smash it up close if they want. And so on. But the thing that picks at me is what am I getting in return? The Phobos' fire output isn't great. And it needs to be kept back at a distance. Using it to sit on an objective is a mammoth investment for one objective and an oppo seeking to contest the BA DZ will likely use units with high S melee weaponry. As for the assault variants, the advantage over pods is that the passengers are protected up to the moment they assault. A turn two assault is often possible, assuming you get there though. The odds of popping a land raider in cover with a single S10 or S8-9 lance shot isn't exactly great. Melta you can guard against, and multi meltas without scout are never going to in range turn one unless you want them to. Necron Gauss is very short ranged, he'll need to walk within charge range before he can rapid fire for effect. What you get with the phobos is a very durable (unlike lesser vehicles it's completely invulnerable to anything not S8) box that can grab VPs on your home turf the entire game and also shoot a bit. It will very likely need a large, dedicated investment from the opponents side to kill. You'll also notice the trend here and that's the fact that in order to deal with it the opponent has to get closer to your units. We want that, right? I think the pod and LR in an assault role works remarkably similar. They will get a unit roughly where you want them (pod touches down wherever, LR gets blow up when it comes too close) and then you get to assault the next turn unless you are counter charged or shot up ( happens with both the raider and pod). Considering that the LR costs as much as a dedicated assault unit and we can buy FA pods for anything (including hammernators) I don't think the crusader or redeemer are a good deal. If you play low point games (sub 1500), use less than a 6*4 table or play missions with end game scoring only then the above doesn't really apply. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The only Land Raider variant I consider better than the Phobos is the Spartan. Problem is, to make it a real Pain in the derriere, you have to invest roughly 360 points into it. If you get across that hurdle, you have a Land Raider thats immune to the Melta USR (armored ceramite), poops on anything fired into its front arc (flare shield, -2s to blasts/templates and -1s to anything else) with 25 capacity and 4 twin-linked lascannon shots. Oh and a TL heavy bolter or heavy flamer for good measure. You can also take pintle weapons but I ignore them :p It also has 5 hull points. But, on topic, K&F pretty much summed up how I feel about it. Its a versatile jack-of-all-trades. Sure, 2 TLLC shots arent the beat but its better than bolters.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The Spartan is the only variant I have a space for - if not the £ just yet sadly. The Phobos does nothing for me in return for the points. Besides, there just isn't a role for it in my jump-pod-bike list. The Sicaran is so much better as a long-range firebase. Eldar hate it; enough said. As for claiming a cover save with it, if you can obscure a land raider and claim an objective at the same time every game, your luck is much better than mine Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I really don't like the Phobos, you pay a lot of points for the AV14 and transport capacity, but the lascannons want it to move only 6'' each turn. Also, as you mention, the transport capacity is somewhat limited. It is just a weird tank, I much prefer the crusader - the assault cannon is an amazing weapon and the hurricanes can even do a little damage when snap firing, and you can actually transport something worthwhile if you need to! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 If you don't like your Phobos, there's always this upgrade pack. Whilst I have not used it with the new book, I did use mine sparingly with the old and it did well enough. Will likely still use it in a heavy mech style list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302528-what-to-do-with-the-land-raider-phobos/#findComment-3931876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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