Dealing with Riptides

[Ulrock]

I have recently switched from guard and I have struggled against tau with both armies. My blood angels are jump and assault oriented. What is the best way to defeat them? I took out 1 riptide with some death company and a power fist but he brought 2 tides at 1500 and it was a tough nuT to Crack. Accidently posted this in adeptus astartes moved to here!

[Arufel87]

Grav gun bikers or plasmacide sternguard are decent shooty options. The best way is combat though. To do that effectively against Tau you need either a very effective alpha strike to take the flack for your slower combat units. The other way is overwhelming target saturation. If there are too many threats for him to deal with then at least some will hit his lines by turn 2. Does he use broadsides too? If not then I'd recommend a raven loaded with a Libby dread.

[GrunTeufel]

You might want to try grav bikers. A 5 man grav bike team with 2 grav guns and a combi grav on the sarge is quite nice.

[Fahlnor]

Do Riptides carry an invulnerable save?

 

My 1,500 list includes five Drop Pods.  Three of them come down turn one.  Two contain Tactical Squads with plasma guns and combi-plasmas, two of them contain two meltaguns and a combi-melta and the fifth contains five Sternguard with either combi-meltas or combi-gravs, depending on what I'm facing.

 

The combi-grav Sternguard should be able to take down a Riptide on their own, just about.  Each one of the Tactical Squads would expect to do a couple of wounds to the second Riptide.

 

Tau player then has to make the choice: deal with the three units sitting in his DZ and threatening to murder everything around them, or worry about the eight jump-pack Death Company with a Chaplain and the ten-man Assault Squad with Feel No Pain making their way up the board.  I guarantee he can't kill everything.  Next turn I'm 89% likely to have at least one of my remaining Drop Pods raining down on his ass bringing another world of melta pain.

 

This kinda meets the advice from Arufel87 on both counts: I will kill the Riptides in combat without doubt, either with my Assault Squad or with my Death Company.  I use both an alpha strike and target saturation to make my opponent fret - and to be damn sure that regardless of what else happens, I will be killing the second Riptide turn two.

[CaptainHelion]

Riptides have a 5++ naturally, which can be boosted to a 3++ with a Nova charge.

[Ulrock]

Yeah he had 3 broadside with a commander in them as well. I'm defiantly taking 2 pods with melta assault guys now. For the tactical would 10 be too much or do you stick with low numbers?

[Caustic63]

Riptides really don't like Grav Guns, but Plasma and Melta are pretty effective too. Deep Striking or coming on from Reserves aren't a good idea against them due to dirt cheap Interceptor. Realistically, Tau Riptides are a perfect example of a balance failure on the part of GW. They should absolutely be heavy support, given the firepower they can lay out, but they were placed in Elites where they completely crowd out Crisis Suits (which now only find use in Farsight lists) allowing Tau players to fill their Heavy Support with all sorts of nasty stuff like Broadsides, Hammerheads and Skyrays.

 

As Blood Angels, I'd either use Grav Bikers or Assault Terminators with SS/Thunderhammer Deep Striking in.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Bike squad, 2 GG, MMAB. Times 3.

[Red-beard]

As was said, grav bikes are a good option.  

 

Against Tau, you could also try using the Angel's Wing Relic of Baal. It would neutralize their interceptor and allow you to safely deepstrike some grav guns or melta guns right next to the Riptide. 

[shandwen]

Also, in this edition a buffmancer can't join a riptide (i'm pretty sure one of the new rules says no joining monsterous dudes). So the buffmancer just isn't what it used to be.

[Shaezus]

Combi-grav sternguard is a better option than plasma; straight 2+ to wound vs a 3+ to wound. Depends how much you want to tailor your list and how many pods you want. Pod units have the advantage of being off the board if your oppo gets first turn, but as mentioned above you may want to put a character with Angel's Wing with them to avoid that Tau intercept fire. If you think scatter may be an issue, take the Isstvan V Dropsite Massacre Legacy of Glory on the pod for 20 points, giving it no scatter.

 

Riptides are a more destructive opponent than the Wraithknight, but ultimately, like all things Tau, they are pretty feeble in assault so if you can get to grips with them, you're on a winner.

[knife&fork]

Don't forget the drones.... makes anything Tau a little trickier to deal with since there's a lot of layers you have to get through before we reach the juicy insides. Melta and grav only isn't an effective way to deal with the drones. Worth considering when you try to alpha strike them. 

 

I would try to get rid of buff units or suits turn one, and then go after the riptides in the second wave when you've had a chance to get rid of some drones with lesser weapons. 

[Ulrock]

I used death company with power fist to take out one but struggled with the other.

[Shaezus]

Well if that works for you, why not take another DC squad with fist? :)

[Spaz431]

The ideas put forth to you are definately valid. I postulate that play to the mission. If you are using maelstrom, as you should (opinion), focus on doing what the cards say. Kill his ObSec units. If you take a turn of shooting his tides, and kill it, you have allowed your opponent to make its points back QUICKLY. The tide has two purposes: shoot at and be shot at. A feeling/intercept tide is 220, versus a 10 deep combi-stern podding in is 375. If your one squad focuses fire, and whether kill it or not, that tide has earned its points back plus. A gravbike squad with MMAB runs 158. The downside is getting it across table. If it doesn't die to all of that, and gets another turn to shoot, possibly killing models. Then it will earn its points. My suggestion is focus on it if there is nothing left. I play in a high tau meta.

[Shaezus]

5 stern with combi-grav podding in are 195. 10 shots at 2+ wound against a 5 wound model should be enough. Horses for courses though; 10 sternguard in the DZ is more than a small eyesore for Tau, what with the rest of your army advancing at them.

[L30n1d4s]

I think a Librarian Dreadnought (either in DP or riding a Stormraven) might be a pretty solid option against a Riptide.

 

Take the melta gun for the chance to inflict a wound in shooting and, when you charge in, use The Quickening and Force powers on yourself.... the Librarian Dread will have 4-6 S10 AP2 attacks on the charge... with WS5, he will hit the Riptide on 3+s, so you should get between 2-4 wounds (based on number of attacks).... with S10 AP2, most or all of these should wound and the Riptide will save about 1/3 of these with its 5++... as long as one gets through, since it has Force activated, it will ID the Riptide, freeing it up to charge another unit next turn.

 

Also, if the Librarian Dread dials up the Fear of the Darkness power, it can force a Ld check on the Riptide at -2Ld, meaning that it has to pass it on Ld 7, which is about a 50% pass rate. If it does fail, it has to fall back and may even run off the board (especially with how people position Riptides toward the back of their DZ).

[Ovidius Incertus]

I think a Librarian Dreadnought (either in DP or riding a Stormraven) might be a pretty solid option against a Riptide.

 

Take the melta gun for the chance to inflict a wound in shooting and, when you charge in, use The Quickening and Force powers on yourself.... the Librarian Dread will have 4-6 S10 AP2 attacks on the charge... with WS5, he will hit the Riptide on 3+s, so you should get between 2-4 wounds (based on number of attacks).... with S10 AP2, most or all of these should wound and the Riptide will save about 1/3 of these with its 5++... as long as one gets through, since it has Force activated, it will ID the Riptide, freeing it up to charge another unit next turn.

 

Also, if the Librarian Dread dials up the Fear of the Darkness power, it can force a Ld check on the Riptide at -2Ld, meaning that it has to pass it on Ld 7, which is about a 50% pass rate. If it does fail, it has to fall back and may even run off the board (especially with how people position Riptides toward the back of their DZ).

 

Wouldn't the Librarian Dread need to survive a turn of shooting from the Riptide then?  It can't charge when arriving from Reserves, can it?

[Red-beard]

Worse yet, the Librarian Dread would need to be within charge range. If you pod in a Dreadnought, the Riptide is going to just hop away before you can charge him.

 

And relying on SR assault ramps is very risky....and not happening before turn 3. 

[Ulrock]

Has anyone tried an imperial knight with blood angels? I'm debating it or 10 terminators with TH/SS to try out next game.

[Karhedron]

Yeah he had 3 broadside with a commander in them as well. I'm defiantly taking 2 pods with melta assault guys now. For the tactical would 10 be too much or do you stick with low numbers?

The good thing about melta vs Crisis/Broadsides is that you may be able to land in an angle where you can get a clear shot at the suits without drones getting in the way. Also you do not have to worry about half range as you do for vehicles. S8 Ap2 will ID suits even at maximum range.

 

You cannot ID a Tide with melta so I would leave that for grav units. Personally I favour the GG/CB + MMAB bike squad as you will be putting out 10 AP2 shots that wound on a 2+ for one round and 7 on the next. With a 5++ save, you will be unlikely to kill a Tide in one turn but 2 squads together should be able to drop one.

 

20 shots, average 13 hits, 11 wounds, 7.4 failed invulnerable saves.

 

Of course 2 bikes squads like that will cost more than a single Tide so you would expect them to do the business (and they take up hotly-contested FA slots).

 

If your opponent fields 2 Tides in 1500 points then you just have to present your opponent with dilemas. Does he kill the bikes or the JP squads which are hurtling forwards to assault him. He cannot kill everything. Relying on one unit to kill a Tide is a bad idea as they have the firepower to delete most individual units with one round of shooting (some exceptions apply of course) so the trick is to saturate him with more targets than he can deal with.

 

Yes this can get expensive but if he is taking 2 tides in 1500 points then that is a big chunk of his army tied up. The other option is to take some of our more unusual choices. VanVets and Command squads can pack storm shields and AP2 guns meaning that they can DS near tides and have a fighting chance of surviving the Interceptor fire before they unload their guns (particular if led by an IC with Angel's Wing). If they survive another turn then they can assault the next turn. You only need a few AP2 CCWs to quickly make a mess of a tide in assault.

[DarthOvious]

I play Tau myself and there are some valid ideas in this thread for you to use. I also advise with the strategy of getting in their face quickly with the use of drop pods. One idea that hasn't been made is that flamer options are very good at taking out the basic troops, especially pathfinders. Not every Tau force is about the pathfinders so you have to evaluate what your opponent has and where the main strength is coming from.

 

I used a riptide and broadside combo myself. If your opponent uses drones then he will most likely use the drones to cover his units. This means you will have to get through the drones at the front first before getting to the Broadsides for instance. Getting to the side of the unit or behind the unit will be difficult if he places his units at the back of his deployment zone. If this is the case then small arms fire first to whittle away the drones is good before making those shots with the melta's. If your opponent place his Broadsides at the back edge of the table then leadership tests will be important to him once he starts losing those drones. So if your force has a libby and you manage to roll fear of the darkness as his power then make sure you make use of it against those back units, although don't rely on it.  

 

So in essence, you could take a tactical squad with 3 flamers in a pod in order to take out basic troops, take a unit of sternguard with melta's of some sort for the broadsides and grav bikes in order to hunt the riptide.

[L30n1d4s]

Another option is the Aquila Strongpoint with Macro-Cannon as a Fortification. While expensive (like the price of two Land Raiders), you get a 2-shot, D-strength AP1 Larg Blast with basically infinite range.

 

Since the Riptide is such as large target, even with scatter you are likely to get 2 hits per shooting phase... say you are fortunate and catch the Riptide and both its drones, meaning you get 3 hits per blast, so 6 hits total... with Destroyer weapons, on a 2+ you will cause D3 wounds per hit, so 6 hits times and average D3 roll of 2 and you have 12 wounds... say its takes two wounds to get through the 4++ on each Drone, leaving 8 wounds left once the Drones are killed... with the Riptides 5++, that 5-6 unsaved wounds, which is enough to kill it ouright in a single volley.

 

Of course, it helps to have a "very accurate" character manning the Macro-Cannon, so you could use an allied Vindicare (BS8 and ignores all cover saves from his Spy Mask), an allied Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Helm of Durfast (BS5, re-rolls to Hit, ignores cover), or an allied Cypher (BS10, so max of 2" scatter) to man the emplacement and get much more accurate shooting.

 

Now, of course, this option is expensive points-wsie, but the advantage is the Macro-Cannon is quite useful against other targets after you kill the Riptide.... Broadside Teams, Crises Teams, FIre Warriors, Pathfinders, Tau vehicles, you name it, are all very vulnerable to the Macro-cannon shooting, so this makes a great, but expensive, "firebase" for you BA army.