Hertz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Hi all, I just logged in on the dusty old cogitator and found this:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/interview-gav-thorpe.htmlIt is, of course a interesting read, even if for some, I guess, not much new is revealed (?) But I just loved this one quote: Tyler: Many of the Heresy authors talk about all of the stories they would like to write outside of “their faction.” If you could pick any faction in the Horus Heresy series to write, who would it be? Gav: Sanguinius and the Blood Angels. I will write about them before the series is over, even if I have to hide bodies afterwards. Their story is at the heart of the themes of 40K, of nobility sacrificed, good intentions inverted, purity hidden beneath a shell of corruption. The opposite of the Dark Angels, really… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'd rather the Black Library kept Gav Thorpe as far away from the Horus Heresy as possible. He's not produced a single book I've enjoyed and Deliverance Lost was an atrocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'd rather the Black Library kept Gav Thorpe as far away from the Horus Heresy as possible. He's not produced a single book I've enjoyed and Deliverance Lost was an atrocity. It was worse than losing 77,000 Marines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'd rather the Black Library kept Gav Thorpe as far away from the Horus Heresy as possible. He's not produced a single book I've enjoyed and Deliverance Lost was an atrocity. better than ben counter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukero Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I guess I'm in the minority, but I just finished reading raven wing and thought it was decent, about to start Master of Sanctity... Hope I'm not in for something bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Problem with gav da story or books besides purging of kadillus (which is mildly entertaining imho), and The Lion, that all his stories revolved around one guy... Astellan. As a matter of fact, the way i see it was that all his subsequent stories after Angels of Darkness were stories to clean up the mess that AoD created. And he also loved skewing the fluff (lascannon attack bikes on ravenwing, non inner circle company master, interrogator chaplain agreeing with the fallen, sergeants that is on inner circle when the afromentioned company master isn't, bone painted normal marines... That got retconned comes ravenwing book, etc) just cause he can. It mostly has no impact on the story but just to trod on codex fluff. One had to wonder if he actually like writing a dark angels story. And why oh why does he make Belial looked like an idiot compared to that punk Astellan. I never really get the concept of the old legionnares being better tactically and prowess compared to the 40k one. I mean tactically isn't the 40k marines has access to codez astartes while the old legionnares were steeped in their legion method of war? I always thought that concept is ridiculous and a cheap way to inflate old old legionnares prowess. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 @ Varizel : You forgot also one thing : he like to spend one chapter on a ritual fight but 2 paragraph on the mission leading to the capture of a fallen (which is finally summed up into sammael arriving from the top with its jebike and grabbing him by the collar)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ciaphas Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well - Gav Thorpe is just a plain, poor writer of fiction. I admit, that I was entertained by Angels of Darkness - and by the first two Eldar Path books. However, his continued focus on Astelan, his dreary prose and treatment of canon has put me entirely off his books. I am horrified of the thought that he will be writing about the Dark Angels in the Horus Heresy timeline now was well; his "Deliverance Lost" is probably the worst of all the HH books to date; and yes, that means that I would prefer reading "Battle for the Abyss". Twice. Rather than have to read another Gav Thorpe book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Well - Gav Thorpe is just a plain, poor writer of fiction. I admit, that I was entertained by Angels of Darkness - and by the first two Eldar Path books. However, his continued focus on Astelan, his dreary prose and treatment of canon has put me entirely off his books. I am horrified of the thought that he will be writing about the Dark Angels in the Horus Heresy timeline now was well; his "Deliverance Lost" is probably the worst of all the HH books to date; and yes, that means that I would prefer reading "Battle for the Abyss". Twice. Rather than have to read another Gav Thorpe book. Or more accurately.. "I would rather get disgusted with Battle for the Abyss and put it down half way through twice than read another Gav Thorpe book" I want him to finish the Legacy of Calaban series and just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Funny thing is Gav likes the ol grimdark universe where Chaos is barely understood even by marines. But as no one other than him writes like that it makes the DA come off kinda silly/stupid. The one thing I do like about his work is that generally there are no new awesome super powerful characters. Chaos marines are usually portrayed as powerful to their counterparts because they had to do a whole lot to survive. Added to the fact that chaos wanted the fallen to survive might imply they are a little special. Astan being the...2nd best swordsman in the //legion// might give him a competitive edge. All of that said, I hate his portrayals of the Lion. Stupid paranoid hit comes to mind. Abnetts and A-DB interpretation has the distrustful ..aura but still shows he's in control. Gav, and a lot of others just portray him as an a-hole. I'm worried about his next Heresy Novel. He's already implied he has 30k marines on Caliban. I mean Jebus. Dorm with all the resources of Terra should have like ...500k... the Big Blue Boss too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Their story is at the heart of the themes of 40K, of nobility sacrificed, good intentions inverted, purity hidden beneath a shell of corruption. The opposite of the Dark Angels, really… This really concerns me. Nobility inverted is the most compelling aspect of the transition between 30k and 40k Dark Angels. More than any other legion/chapter we've fallen from noble principles into grimdark utilitarianism. How are we the opposite of ''nobility sacrified'' and ''good intentions inverted''? Or does he mean that we're corruption hidden beneath a shell of purity? Because that's an even worse interpretation for the DA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The idea that the DA flaw is controllable. They choose to do what they do. The BA don't. Their secret is pretty well known the DA isn't. I still dont like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 What you say is factually true Augustus, we are the opposite of the BA in terms of it being a behavioural and not genetic flaw/secret, but I just don't see that referenced in the comments Gav made. Probably not much point pursuing as a conversation since it'll just degerate into the usual (if deserved) Gav bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The Gas bashing is already present, so by all means save this thread from the meta by pursuing a meaningful conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Funny thing is Gav likes the ol grimdark universe where Chaos is barely understood even by marines. But as no one other than him writes like that it makes the DA come off kinda silly/stupid. The one thing I do like about his work is that generally there are no new awesome super powerful characters. Chaos marines are usually portrayed as powerful to their counterparts because they had to do a whole lot to survive. Added to the fact that chaos wanted the fallen to survive might imply they are a little special. Astan being the...2nd best swordsman in the //legion// might give him a competitive edge. All of that said, I hate his portrayals of the Lion. Stupid paranoid hit comes to mind. Abnetts and A-DB interpretation has the distrustful ..aura but still shows he's in control. Gav, and a lot of others just portray him as an a-hole. I'm worried about his next Heresy Novel. He's already implied he has 30k marines on Caliban. I mean Jebus. Dorm with all the resources of Terra should have like ...500k... the Big Blue Boss too. How the heck could that even be possible? I thought firm canon was 10k in the legion before the split. Jonson had half the force with him, so that's 30 successor chapters we should have now. Considering the DA still operate as a legion, how is it that we haven't crushed the galaxy yet? That's more than the Black Templar can muster. And yes, Gav bashing there will be. It's because of this derp head that I have conversations that pan out like this: "Did you bring chaos, I mean, Dark Angels today? *snicker*" "Did you bring your warp spawns, I mean, Blood Angels?" "Blood Angels aren't tainted! Dark Angels fell to chaos!" "No, actually, they were tricked by a guy who wasn't even a space marine. They were tricked into thinking the primarch fell. Most still haven't fallen and are rogues seeking penance. Unlike your primarch that was mutated by chaos. Then gave his geneseed to an entire legion, warping them." "Yeah, Blood Angels suck so much, that's why an entire game system was made for the chapter *sarcasm*)" "They did let an entire sector get over run by genestealers" "When did DA ever face tyranids?" "Five terminators and a librarian took down a cult that infected an entire planet and saved the sector." "Well Blood Angels defeated an entire hive fleet" "Only after they begged necrons to help them" And on, and on and on and on. Seems, thanks to Gav, people only know and accept 2 things about Dark Angels: 1) They're chaos marines 2) They've never achieved anything except becoming chaos marines. It gets tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The HH books from BL have now boosted the legion sizes to around 100k per, give or take... UM at Calth are almost 300k and Dark Angels are accepted at around 120k at the time of Nikea. Since there were no reinforcements sent from Calaban (Luther was holding them) our numbers through the Heresy can only go down from there.Now this can be true and the successor chapter number can also be true. Remember that the Heresy and the Scouring was very destructive of manpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I don't believe that the immature behaviour of certain gaming groups can be blamed on Gav Thorpe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The HH books from BL have now boosted the legion sizes to around 100k per, give or take... UM at Calth are almost 300k and Dark Angels are accepted at around 120k at the time of Nikea. Since there were no reinforcements sent from Calaban (Luther was holding them) our numbers through the Heresy can only go down from there. Now this can be true and the successor chapter number can also be true. Remember that the Heresy and the Scouring was very destructive of manpower. That's utterly daft. That would put the number of adeptus astartes in the millions. How the heck did humanity not steam roll the galaxy? The Imperium is holding on pretty good with only ~100k marines using heresy leftovers for equipment, MANY more enemies, no primarchs and no emperor. 20 primarchs and the emperor at the head of millions of marines and the ability to make whatever weapons and armor at will... egads *facepalm* This is why I don't read GW literature anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 @ Varizel : You forgot also one thing : he like to spend one chapter on a ritual fight but 2 paragraph on the mission leading to the capture of a fallen (which is finally summed up into sammael arriving from the top with its jebike and grabbing him by the collar)... Aww yeah..... hey at least he's consistent... after all he spent one chapter on Telemenus having illusions and dreams in Master of Sanctity, and the process of capturing the Fallen they've come to collect to a quick 2 paragraphish which can be summed as, the DA cornered him in a cellar, he got knocked down, and Apoth moved in to put him to sleep. Game over man, Game over. The HH books from BL have now boosted the legion sizes to around 100k per, give or take... UM at Calth are almost 300k and Dark Angels are accepted at around 120k at the time of Nikea. Since there were no reinforcements sent from Calaban (Luther was holding them) our numbers through the Heresy can only go down from there. Now this can be true and the successor chapter number can also be true. Remember that the Heresy and the Scouring was very destructive of manpower. That's utterly daft. That would put the number of adeptus astartes in the millions. How the heck did humanity not steam roll the galaxy? The Imperium is holding on pretty good with only ~100k marines using heresy leftovers for equipment, MANY more enemies, no primarchs and no emperor. 20 primarchs and the emperor at the head of millions of marines and the ability to make whatever weapons and armor at will... egads *facepalm* This is why I don't read GW literature anymore. Proof, Twopounder, that the 30k marines are weaker than 40k marines . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That's utterly daft. That would put the number of adeptus astartes in the millions. How the heck did humanity not steam roll the galaxy? Humanity did steamroll the galaxy. At the start of the Horus Heresy, the Emperor has retired to Terra to solve the problem of Chaos once and for all, and many of the characters are beginning to contemplate the purpose of their existence once the Great Crusade has achieved its goals. Even 10,000 years of directionless stagnation and decline later, the Imperium is still the dominant force in the galaxy. That's the tragedy. Humanity had all but won. The Imperium is holding on pretty good with only ~100k marines Um, no. A thousand Chapters. That's not new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athrawes Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The HH books from BL have now boosted the legion sizes to around 100k per, give or take... UM at Calth are almost 300k and Dark Angels are accepted at around 120k at the time of Nikea. Since there were no reinforcements sent from Calaban (Luther was holding them) our numbers through the Heresy can only go down from there. Now this can be true and the successor chapter number can also be true. Remember that the Heresy and the Scouring was very destructive of manpower. That's utterly daft. That would put the number of adeptus astartes in the millions. How the heck did humanity not steam roll the galaxy? The Imperium is holding on pretty good with only ~100k marines using heresy leftovers for equipment, MANY more enemies, no primarchs and no emperor. 20 primarchs and the emperor at the head of millions of marines and the ability to make whatever weapons and armor at will... egads *facepalm* This is why I don't read GW literature anymore. Humanity DID steamroll the galaxy. It was called the Great Crusade. By the ned of it, there were not many xenos threats left. Major ones at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That's utterly daft. That would put the number of adeptus astartes in the millions. How the heck did humanity not steam roll the galaxy? Humanity did steamroll the galaxy. At the start of the Horus Heresy, the Emperor has retired to Terra to solve the problem of Chaos once and for all, and many of the characters are beginning to contemplate the purpose of their existence once the Great Crusade has achieved its goals. Even 10,000 years of directionless stagnation and decline later, the Imperium is still the dominant force in the galaxy. That's the tragedy. Humanity had all but won. The Imperium is holding on pretty good with only ~100k marines Um, no. A thousand Chapters. That's not new. Do'h. Bad math on my part. I knew about 1000 chapters. Came up with 100,000 somehow. I blame two tests and a rushed assignment on dinosaurs Humanity steamrolled itself. I don't recall the emperor fighting much more than obstinate humans. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't remember reading anything about wars with major alien races during 30k. IE. Eldar, Orks, necrons etc. This makes me realize how few alien races there are in 40k. Maybe they should add alien races that were made extinct by the great crusade. You know, so it looks like marines did something other than zerg disparate planets with no hopes of curbing the slaughter of millions of space marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 There are numerous such references throughout the Heresy series, usually in the form of anecdotes about the unique challenge posed by a particular race and how a Legion stomped them into the dust. Of the races that survived into the 41st millennium, the Eldar were as scattered then as they are now, the Necrons were asleep, the Tyranids hadn't yet arrived, and the Tau were banging rocks together in caves. The Ullanor Crusade that culminated in Horus being made Warmaster was a war against the largest Ork Empire ever encountered. There was at least one encounter with a massive Hrud migration. By and large, to be a threat in 40k you had to not be one in 30k, or be impossible to eradicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The Nephilim. The arachnids.But we have gone a bit far afield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 He's making another book called Angels of Caliban? Ye gods man! Have you no end to our disgrace? What happened to Abnett wanting to write a HH DAs book? Sadly, our best appearances so far are a short story by ADB and a cameo in UE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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