Horus Heresy Tactica: Allies

[defl0]

I thought an interesting way to approach this is, "what's the best unit per points, without the support of a ROW" or best combo per legion to pick as an ally. If ur going to cherry pick something cool from another legion it's nice to know what works.

 

Format:

 

III - Emperor's Children: 

IV - Iron Warriors: 

VII - Imperial Fists:

VIII - Knight Lords:

X - Iron Hands:

XII - World Eaters: 

XIV- Death Guard:

XV - Thousand Sons: 

XVI - Luna Wolves:

XVII - Word Bearers:

XVIII - Salamanders:

XIX - Raven Guard:

XX - Alpha Legion:

Mechanicum:

Solar Auxilla:

 

So for example:

 

IV - Iron Warriors: 

- Castrman Orth in a sicarian

 

XVIII - Salamanders:

- Praetor – Cataphractii Terminator, Mastre Crafted Thunder Hammer, Dragonscale Stormshield, Mantle of the Elder Drake

- Firedrake Squad (5) – 4x Dragonscale Stormshield, 5x Thunder Hammer, 1x Heavy Flamer, Spartan, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

 

 

 

 

I've pulled the legions that don't have rules yet, but feel free to add representative units if you like. 

 

I - Dark Angels:

V - White Scars:

VI - Space Wolves:

IX - Blood Angels:

XIII - Ultra Marines:

[ROBOcaster]

X - Iron Hands: 

- Castrman Orth in a sicarian.

[AekoldHelbrass]

VIII - Knight Lords:

Batman, shmatman. Knight Lords rule!

 

Back on the topic:

XII - World Eaters:

20 man Assault squad

Chaplain

5 Red Butchers in Land Raider with Armoured Ceramite.

[Slips]

VIIth Legion - Imperial Fists

 

Sigismund - 'nuff said

Polux - Free Deepstrike, power fist at S10 and initiative

Templar Brethren

Storm Shields on Generic Terminators.

[Moonstalker]

I think you meant Salamanders in your OP, not Death Guard.

 

But, for any traitor forces, a good Death Guard example might be Durak Rask, Reaping RoW, and a heavy support squad with missile launchers.  A scoring heavy support squad with tank hunters, wrecker, Target Priority, a Nuncio Voxii, a Phosphex bomb, and a character who can crack some skulls if the enemy gets too close.

[Nusquam]

XIX - Raven Guard:

 

Mor Deythan in a Darkwing for high alpha strike potential and blind missiles against automata.

 

Dark Fury Squads for counter attacks/vanguard.

 

Infiltrated Tac squads with Vox for LoS assistance.

[TompiQ]

The most broken allies in 30k:

 

Cults & Militia:

Force Commander w. the Tainted Flesh and Cult Horde provenances

2x 50 man Inducted Levy Squads

 

101 fearless bodies with hatred, rending melee attacks. WS2, S3, T3 and a 6+/6+FnP per body isn't super impressive, but these guys cost a wooping 320 points in total, score and only the Force Commander gives up kill points if eliminated.

 

Incredibly few units counters them point efficiently. (WE blobs and quad guns being some)

[Baluc]

I don't know if that is broken. Its just good in the context that most people build their HH armies to fight Astartes. If you meta starts including units like that it only increases the value Legion lists get from Tac marines, flamers and heavy flamers.

 

To be honest in the Age of Darkness the real broken ally is Daemons. 

[Brother Aiwass]

The most broken allies in 30k:

 

Cults & Militia:

Force Commander w. the Tainted Flesh and Cult Horde provenances

2x 50 man Inducted Levy Squads

 

101 fearless bodies with hatred, rending melee attacks. WS2, S3, T3 and a 6+/6+FnP per body isn't super impressive, but these guys cost a wooping 320 points in total, score and only the Force Commander gives up kill points if eliminated.

 

Incredibly few units counters them point efficiently. (WE blobs and quad guns being some)

Would consider doing this, need cannon fodder! Thank you!

I don't know if that is broken. Its just good in the context that most people build their HH armies to fight Astartes. If you meta starts including units like that it only increases the value Legion lists get from Tac marines, flamers and heavy flamers.

^This is good :)

[TompiQ]

I don't know if that is broken. Its just good in the context that most people build their HH armies to fight Astartes. If you meta starts including units like that it only increases the value Legion lists get from Tac marines, flamers and heavy flamers.

 

To be honest in the Age of Darkness the real broken ally is Daemons. 

 

It is broken - in the context that you need to invest way more points and effort into killing them than their cost justifies, even using counters. With proper spacing not even the standard counters (flamers and quad guns) perform well. Remember that each kill only equals a 3.2 points return, and with them being fearless and scoring every single one has to die or they can effect the outcome of the battle.

 

And yes, including such units increases the value of anti-horde weaponry. But take into account the above (needs to be countered by more than their value in points) and the fact that their counters often are inferior to astartes (why they're not taken in the first place). If you've driven more than 320 points of enemy lists into anti-horde duty, you suddenly have a net advantage with the rest of your (presumably Legiones Astartes) list!

 

In the end, I'm not saying it's broken in the manner of say 40k eldar or such, but in the context of 30k their point effectiveness is unparalleled.

 

...until they are charged by a 20 man strong berserker assault WE blob, which on average wipes them out to the last man before they get to strike. Buuut everything has hard counters!

[Terminus]

There is a lot of talk about proper spacing, but if you're playing on a board with proper terrain, you shouldn't be able to mathematically perfectly space out 100 schmucks. Quad mortars do the job quite adequately. People like Seekers more now, who also can put out a lot of templates. Scorpius whirlwinds, Dreadclaws and Kharybdis, Leviathans with bombard and heavy flamer nipples, Assault Cannon Angels, Volkite Culvern jetbikes, etc. All common units that can contribute to horde control without sacrificing any portion of the list's strength against Legions. The stuff that kills hordes of t-shirt dudes also kills handfuls of elite terminators.

Yes, frenzied cultists are excellent. Yes, 100 scoring bodies to kill is a difficult question that must be answered no matter how easy they are to kill. Yes they are extremely cost-effective, like the 2-point zombies 40K Renegades can get who have 4+ FNP, are fearless, and can be targetted by your own ample and dirt-cheap artillery. Other stuff is "broken" from a cost perspective. Those poor Destroyers, for example.

[helterskelter]

3 whirlwind will be enough.

 

On the subject of allies, if you pick night Lords you Want anything with the ability to outnumber, assault squads, night raptors, terminators, jp destroyers are now all effective for one reason or another and will all earn their points back if you strike efficiently. In terms of Hq to lead invariably taking a chaplain or assault oriented praetor or centurion will do the business

[Flint13]

 

I don't know if that is broken. Its just good in the context that most people build their HH armies to fight Astartes. If you meta starts including units like that it only increases the value Legion lists get from Tac marines, flamers and heavy flamers.

 

To be honest in the Age of Darkness the real broken ally is Daemons. 

 

It is broken - in the context that you need to invest way more points and effort into killing them than their cost justifies, even using counters. With proper spacing not even the standard counters (flamers and quad guns) perform well. Remember that each kill only equals a 3.2 points return, and with them being fearless and scoring every single one has to die or they can effect the outcome of the battle.

 

And yes, including such units increases the value of anti-horde weaponry. But take into account the above (needs to be countered by more than their value in points) and the fact that their counters often are inferior to astartes (why they're not taken in the first place). If you've driven more than 320 points of enemy lists into anti-horde duty, you suddenly have a net advantage with the rest of your (presumably Legiones Astartes) list!

 

In the end, I'm not saying it's broken in the manner of say 40k eldar or such, but in the context of 30k their point effectiveness is unparalleled.

 

...until they are charged by a 20 man strong berserker assault WE blob, which on average wipes them out to the last man before they get to strike. Buuut everything has hard counters!

 

 

Nah dude, i can tell you from about 25 games' experience, that this 101 unit allied Militia unit is good but it isn't broken by any stretch of the term past "rock is broken, paper is ok though, sincerely scissors."

 

Their points effectiveness on paper looks beyond amazing. And in the context of that theoretical 300 man super blob army, maybe it could cause a lot more problems, but no one in the history of ever has actually done that. 101 models isn't nearly as bad, especially when taken into the context of an actual table with terrain which slows them down and bottle necks them like no one's business. They don't have frag grenades, but they're going after every Astartes anyway. Beyond getting caught on every piece of terrain (which any legion player that isn't asleep at the wheel will make sure causes you issues) the models you lose on overwatch will put you out of charge range so many times.

 

Against anyone who isn't a legion player, you're going to see even less return with one of these units. Even taking the shooting phase out of the equation, getting overwatched by a pack of BS2 volkites from a Storm squad or a ton of flamers and assorted bolters from a Castellax posse is going to push your business in on the reg.  

[Perry]

When taking allies its important to pay attention to the Allies matrix.

 

My Night Lords have Militia/ warp cult as Distrusted allies, so my Levy units can't score.

[Charlo]

Throwing my hat into the ring as I'm always looking for exuses to paint up a small allied force that I will never actually follow through with...

I - Dark Angels: Ravenwing RoW - Preator on Jetbike with Paragon/ Terranic Greatsword to taste. Jetbikes with Acid Shells for Troops, even Heavy Support Jetbikes to cover other things or a command squad for an expensive yet hitty unit. Very good at hunting MC/ TEQ.

III - Emperor's Children: Assault Marines make very nice EC troops and Jump pack Apothecaries gave Palatine Blades a new lease on life. Use them to counter assault with a gunline army.

IV - Iron Warriors: Because for the price of a HQ and a troops choice you can bring some insane firepower in Havocs. Or you are Mechanicum and want some Astartes allies. Ordo Reductor buffs on the new Deredeo Lascannons are MONEY

V - White Scars: Bikes that are better than yours. Similar to the DA, but less shooty options. Personally I don't like them for allies.

VII - Imperial Fists: Plugs pretty much any hole in your list well. Need scoring bodies? BS5 Bolter dudes. Need a Deathstar? 2+/3++ Terminators that can teleport on and sweep. Anti-AV? Tank Hunting Lascannon Heavy Support Squad.

VIII - Night Lords: Terror Assault. Bring a Preator and two Terror squads. They can use pods or infiltrate in for maximum fun. Argue with your opponent about the Preator not being able to join the unit either way.

IX - Blood Angels: Not enough stuff yet to make them really worth it as allies unless you want something to hit slightly harder in CC or a lot of assault cannons.

X - Iron Hands: Troops immune to firepower. Allied Head of the Gorgon lets you outflank some tanks with stubborn objective holders.

XII - World Eaters: Similar to Militia, grab inductii and run em at the enemy. Getting S6 AP4 in combat is hilarious. Red Butchers are the ultimate murder counters, they will take something with them.

XIII - Ultra Marines: Not too hot as allies as they like to work together, but Invictus Suzerians may well be worth the price of admission alone.

XIV- Death Guard: Because you like Terminators. They can bring them in almost any slot with an allied Pride of the Legion. Or you want some really nice heavy flamers.

XVI - Luna Wolves Sons Of Horus: Premier Deepstrikers. SoH Veteran squads may well be one of the best troop units in the game now that you can combine death dealers with sniper &^ Combis or WS5 with Merciless Fighters. Malhogurst makes them troops as well as elites too.

XVII - Word Bearers: Add a little psychic support and daemonic assault power to your list. Lots of cool characters.

XVIII - Salamanders: Firedrakes are almost the last word in deathstars being WS5, 2W, 2+/3++ Terminators. Eternal Warrior Preator to win fights. Flamer and Melta in buckets to cover all needs. Also hard to make run away.

XIX - Raven Guard: Incredibly versatile with infiltrate on the shooty ones and FC on the fast assaulty ones. All unique units are great and easy to implement. Take Allied Decap Strike RoW for some podded fun.

XX - Alpha Legion: Another one to plug a hole in a list. Mutable keeps them free and easy to do what you want. Veterans stack rules for days.

Mechanicum: So many builds that it can do quite anything. Horde with Thralls; blow stuff up with Reductor; massed bots with Cybernetica; bring all the best guns with any of them. Enoy Pseudo-MC HQ's.

Solar Auxilla: Tank commander, Lasrifle sectrion and a Malcador Infernus is ~500 points. You know what to do.

[Terminus]

I wouldn't say Apothecaries give Palatines a new lease. It's just throwing more good points after bad. Neither of the EC units is remarkable (and are maybe even terrible), their power IMO is in their unique Rites of War.

 

Alphas can be real cute with Sacrificial Offering or Dark Compliance, since Skorr's warlord trait can buff any or all units under his command. Stealth and move through cover for everyone!

 

Word Bearers as you stated can push the summoning angle, and as allies don't have to bring a chaplain (fact check me on this, but iirc that restriction is primary detachment only).

[Brother Aiwass]

 

 

I don't know if that is broken. Its just good in the context that most people build their HH armies to fight Astartes. If you meta starts including units like that it only increases the value Legion lists get from Tac marines, flamers and heavy flamers.

 

To be honest in the Age of Darkness the real broken ally is Daemons. 

 

It is broken - in the context that you need to invest way more points and effort into killing them than their cost justifies, even using counters. With proper spacing not even the standard counters (flamers and quad guns) perform well. Remember that each kill only equals a 3.2 points return, and with them being fearless and scoring every single one has to die or they can effect the outcome of the battle.

 

And yes, including such units increases the value of anti-horde weaponry. But take into account the above (needs to be countered by more than their value in points) and the fact that their counters often are inferior to astartes (why they're not taken in the first place). If you've driven more than 320 points of enemy lists into anti-horde duty, you suddenly have a net advantage with the rest of your (presumably Legiones Astartes) list!

 

In the end, I'm not saying it's broken in the manner of say 40k eldar or such, but in the context of 30k their point effectiveness is unparalleled.

 

...until they are charged by a 20 man strong berserker assault WE blob, which on average wipes them out to the last man before they get to strike. Buuut everything has hard counters!

 

 

Nah dude, i can tell you from about 25 games' experience, that this 101 unit allied Militia unit is good but it isn't broken by any stretch of the term past "rock is broken, paper is ok though, sincerely scissors."

 

Their points effectiveness on paper looks beyond amazing. And in the context of that theoretical 300 man super blob army, maybe it could cause a lot more problems, but no one in the history of ever has actually done that. 101 models isn't nearly as bad, especially when taken into the context of an actual table with terrain which slows them down and bottle necks them like no one's business. They don't have frag grenades, but they're going after every Astartes anyway. Beyond getting caught on every piece of terrain (which any legion player that isn't asleep at the wheel will make sure causes you issues) the models you lose on overwatch will put you out of charge range so many times.

 

Against anyone who isn't a legion player, you're going to see even less return with one of these units. Even taking the shooting phase out of the equation, getting overwatched by a pack of BS2 volkites from a Storm squad or a ton of flamers and assorted bolters from a Castellax posse is going to push your business in on the reg.

 

Thanks for the advice Flint. I'm considering an even weaker option, and will apreciatte any advice. My intent is to swap an assault squad (215 pts, with 2 PW, MB and heavy chainsword) for a force commander and a single, maxed out levy unit (220 points with tainted and cult provenances).

 

I don't the army list with me atm as I'm at work, still have 40 marine dudes on the army (50 if I'm not swapping the assault squad): 25 marauders, 10 seekers, 5 scouts. Would be in that case worth discarding the assault squad for those pesky militia pests?

[Terminus]

One of the "best" current ally options is an Armoured Breakthrough allied Rite.  It is effectively a way to add 4 additional heavy support slots to an army, two of which are scoring. 

 

HQ: Sicaran Tank, lascannons - 205

Troops: Predator with autocannon, lascannons - 115

Troops: Predator with autocannon, lascannons - 115

Heavy Support: Whirlwind or Vindicator or whatever - ~115-130 points depending on upgrades.

 

So there, ~550 points of fast-moving armor with a lot of guns, and two scoring units.  You also get an additional Elite and Fast Attack slot, in case you wanted to bring some Veterans or Seekers in a Fast Rhino. Since you don't get the Warlord perks on the HQ tank, it may even be worthwhile to just take a plasma destroyer Predator instead, and save some points.

[Flint13]

^That is hilarious and an awesome point. 

 

Who needs Onslaught or Hammer of Olympia now? :lol:

[defl0]

Do many of you play with the allies detachment? I often see it blocked at tournaments which always seemed weird to me.