Kastor Krieg Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 What just hit me is that there are two ways of deploying your force in the Codex. One is the full Company which does, and the other the slightly altered C:SM FOC which does not have Objective Secured listed for their troops as a Command Benefit. Does this mean that BA Tacs / Scouts are way inferior to other Troop Choices of other codices because they cannon contest an objective, because they are only Scoring Units?That sucks big time :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leman Russ SW Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 You can use the standard combined arms detachment from the brb if you want object secured troops. None of the special codex detachments have objected secured they have other benefits instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 What just hit me is that there are two ways of deploying your force in the Codex. One is the full Company which does, and the other the slightly altered C:SM FOC which does not have Objective Secured listed for their troops as a Command Benefit. Does this mean that BA Tacs / Scouts are way inferior to other Troop Choices of other codices because they cannon contest an objective, because they are only Scoring Units? That sucks big time :\ Well, only if you completely discount that they have Furious Charge compared to their Codex counterparts. It's a fair trade, and you are always most welcome to deploy a BA army using the Combined Arms Detachment, and get Objective Secured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The BRB gives us the CAD method of making an army. C:BA gives us two alternative options called formations. Then there's exterminatus, WD 46&47 and whatever else offering a myriad of other ways of composing an army. Each alternative has it's own pros and cons. It sounds like you put too much stock in Objective Secured to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yeah, I forgot about p 122 in BRB completely :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 D'oh! And no, our troops are in no way inferior to C:SM troops. I'm sure that there are formations for them too that lose Objective Secured for other bonuses. And yes, i didnt miss not having it in my Baal Stike Force over the weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 D'oh! And no, our troops are in no way inferior to C:SM troops. I'm sure that there are formations for them too that lose Objective Secured for other bonuses. And yes, i didnt miss not having it in my Baal Stike Force over the weekend... Indeed. Space Wolves trade ObjSec for +1WS in the Company of the Greatwolf detachment for example. Both BAs and SWs favour an aggressive style of play and our detachment bonuses reward that. Remember that enemy tactical squads with ObjSec are not superior to ours if we kill them! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yep, obsec is no use when you're dead. Can honestly say I never benefitted nor suffered from it in games before the new dex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 With things like the Strike Force Detachment, and our new "Chapter Trait", I think the need to have Ob Sec is greatly diminished this time around. Whereas I would have put a lot more thought into keeping Ob Sec, particualrly as I used to run two full squads of Jump Asst Marines, now I just run the Strike Force and I haven't missed it at all. Depends on your style of play and type of lists you run, but I'm personally very happy with +1 S/I in assault over Ob Sec, and not having it has not lost me a game yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Depends on whether you think you can self ally, can take a CAD and a Baal Strike Force detachment together etc. The Champions of Fenris detachment basically allows you to cherry pick the best bits and combine it with ObSec troops from another source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Depends on whether you think you can self ally, can take a CAD and a Baal Strike Force detachment together etc. The Champions of Fenris detachment basically allows you to cherry pick the best bits and combine it with ObSec troops from another source. Same with the BA archangel formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Depends on whether you think you can self ally, can take a CAD and a Baal Strike Force detachment together etc. The Champions of Fenris detachment basically allows you to cherry pick the best bits and combine it with ObSec troops from another source. Erm. No question about 'self allying'. It's not even that. A battleforged army is made from multiple detachments, one of which can be a combined arms detachment, the other can be a baal strike force. So your tacs and priest can be combined arms for ObSec, and your assault elements can be BSF with cassor and a scout squad as troops etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 We always play objective games (maelstrom, cities of death) and I can count on one finger how many times objective secured has really mattered and this was when I thought we still had it using the BSF. Occasionally it'll prompt me to go for the kill rather than the objective with assault marines for example but I haven't found it to be as big a deal as people think it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 We always play objective games (maelstrom, cities of death) and I can count on one finger how many times objective secured has really mattered and this was when I thought we still had it using the BSF. Occasionally it'll prompt me to go for the kill rather than the objective with assault marines for example but I haven't found it to be as big a deal as people think it should be. Dedicated transpirts can make it an issue. Oj sec LRs sure did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 We always play objective games (maelstrom, cities of death) and I can count on one finger how many times objective secured has really mattered and this was when I thought we still had it using the BSF. Occasionally it'll prompt me to go for the kill rather than the objective with assault marines for example but I haven't found it to be as big a deal as people think it should be. Dedicated transpirts can make it an issue. Oj sec LRs sure did. To be clear what I mean is, 'everything scores', so any LR can hold an objective and while the obj sec rule could make a difference, in my experience it rarely does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Depends on whether you think you can self ally, can take a CAD and a Baal Strike Force detachment together etc. The Champions of Fenris detachment basically allows you to cherry pick the best bits and combine it with ObSec troops from another source. Erm. No question about 'self allying'. It's not even that. A battleforged army is made from multiple detachments, one of which can be a combined arms detachment, the other can be a baal strike force. So your tacs and priest can be combined arms for ObSec, and your assault elements can be BSF with cassor and a scout squad as troops etc etc. No I specifically meant having an Allied detachment from the same Faction as your other Detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yep, obsec is no use when you're dead. Can honestly say I never benefitted nor suffered from it in games before the new dex. You need to go baals deep for it to be worthwhile. If you only have 2-3 troops, its not worth it. When close to your whole army is ObSec, it becomes another story altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Baals deep hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ob Sec will without a doubt win or lose you games in 7th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm not up to speed on BA detachments, but you can always take 2 detachments. Try to maximise your troops in you CAD to make use of objective secured. Space wolves often play without CAD as the bonuses from our formations out weigh the loss of the CAD. Just do what the space wolves do. Kill anything on an objective so there is nothing left to contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascalnz Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 You can always take as many detachments as you want. Formations are more defined detachments. Some tourney's have restrictions, but basic 7th allows you to take anything you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Depends on whether you think you can self ally, can take a CAD and a Baal Strike Force detachment together etc. The Champions of Fenris detachment basically allows you to cherry pick the best bits and combine it with ObSec troops from another source. Erm. No question about 'self allying'. It's not even that. A battleforged army is made from multiple detachments, one of which can be a combined arms detachment, the other can be a baal strike force. So your tacs and priest can be combined arms for ObSec, and your assault elements can be BSF with cassor and a scout squad as troops etc etc. No I specifically meant having an Allied detachment from the same Faction as your other Detachment. I guess it was the bit where you asked whether you can take a CAD and a BSF together. Remember, a Battleforged army features one or more combined arms, allied or other detachments. I dont believe you can choose allies from within th4e same codex unless expressly stated, like Iyanden, Black Legion etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Which begs the question, "why would you need to?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Nothing stops you from having multiple CADs from the same Codex or multiple formations from the same Codex. The only restriction is having your primary detachment I.e. where your Warlord is and then choosing an allied detachment from the same Codex - something which is completely pointless for us to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 No I specifically meant having an Allied detachment from the same Faction as your other Detachment. That is not allowed ;) I think ObSec is really overrated. Good luck with superscoring if my Scouts are attacking with S5, I5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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