Tunderstrike formation - FAQ atlast

[CatSmasher]

I've said this before, but I think Dpods are awesome with the new movement rules and Deathwind, it means you can kit up a melta team, but still press another softer blob

[Frater Cornelius]

I've said this before, but I think Dpods are awesome with the new movement rules and Deathwind, it means you can kit up a melta team, but still press another softer blob

 

If you can enlighten me how to carry three of those around with you without having to take a bigger bad, I'd be much obliged. Three pod take more space than the rest of of my SW and my entire GK army put together (minus the Land Raider).

[CatSmasher]

 

I've said this before, but I think Dpods are awesome with the new movement rules and Deathwind, it means you can kit up a melta team, but still press another softer blob

 

If you can enlighten me how to carry three of those around with you without having to take a bigger bad, I'd be much obliged. Three pod take more space than the rest of of my SW and my entire GK army put together (minus the Land Raider).

 

This is a fair, but unrelated reply. I will post some pics of my carrying case. I have one regular GW one, and one that looks more like a crate, 

[tylerw]

 

Well not quiet a FAQ but the next best thing...

 

Message to GW.... Can you clarify the rules for the Space Wolf Thunderstrike formation please....Have emailed the FAQ team but heard nothing back.

 

If the drop pod wolf guard component of this force arrives turn 1 as per the drop pod assault rule does the wolf guard terminator squad arrive with them during turn 1 or do they have to arrive turn 2 as per the deep strike rule. If they dont do they arrive eperately turn 1 and 2 or do they need to be rolled for in turn 2. If this is the case could the wolf guard terminator be placed in a fast attack drop pod to enable both units to arrive turn 1.....

 

Response from GW.....Hey Scott,

 

Weirdly, we got asked this last week, too…

 

The formation all arrives together from turn 2 onwards using the rules for Deep Strike. The formation rules supersedes the Drop Pod Assault rule. As such, placing the Wolf Guard Terminators in another Drop Pod would not benefit the formation as they would still need to arrive by Deep Strike from the second turn onwards.

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Dan

 

 

Could you email back asking for the guy to clarify/re-read the rules - Deep Strike applies to units arriving in drop pods (or am I missing something there? I know they are treated as having come from reserves. They're also treated as having Struck Deeply as far as I can tell?) so why is he thinking that the TDAs aren't arriving via DS? Are they just flat-out saying it can't be done before turn 2, for some reason or another, or that the termies just cannot arrive via pod, and much go in naked to do this? It seems like idiocy to make the formation go from, "mild utility" to "pretty much poop."

[Lord Blackwood]

 

 

I've said this before, but I think Dpods are awesome with the new movement rules and Deathwind, it means you can kit up a melta team, but still press another softer blob

 

If you can enlighten me how to carry three of those around with you without having to take a bigger bad, I'd be much obliged. Three pod take more space than the rest of of my SW and my entire GK army put together (minus the Land Raider).

 

This is a fair, but unrelated reply. I will post some pics of my carrying case. I have one regular GW one, and one that looks more like a crate, 

 

I use a little white storage crate and I can fit  3 imperial knights 3 drop pods a stormwolf 16 thunderwolf cavalry 16 bikes  20 grey hunters and  8 longfangs in it no problem , never had an issue with any breakages either 

 

Maybe the problem is the bag 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I have a Battlefoam bag that carries 5 pods, 2 stormtalons, 1 storm raven, 2 stormgrrs, and 2 land raiders.

[Guest loganwolf]

GW said that the formations rules over wrote the drop pod assault rule. It makes the formation very poor now however.

[Frater Cornelius]

GW said that the formations rules over wrote the drop pod assault rule. It makes the formation very poor now however.

 

It was too expensive to be good in the first place. You pay 295 for 3 grav cents in a pod and omniscope.

[tylerw]

GW said that the formations rules over wrote the drop pod assault rule. It makes the formation very poor now however.

 

Right, I follow you that far, but the formation doesn't say they cannot ride in a pod, and pods count as deepstriking (this is my understanding, please correct me if wrong!), so unless they're just saying, "Look, we should have put that the TDA can't ride in a POD!"

 

(which seems unnecessarily restrictive as I ALREADY HAVE TO BLOW 90 EXTRA POINTS ON 5 WG PA FIGURES I DIDN'T WANT TO PAY FOR AND 35 + A FA SLOT FOR THE POD JUST TO GET MY "okay" ALPHA STRIKERS ON TURN ONE!)

 

 then it seems like they maaybbbeee just got it mixed up? I guess it seems like the guy replying is going, "Well, see, if the terminators ride a FA pod, they aren't deep striking," and I'm going, "Well, it sure reads like they ARE to me, so can that part get clarification?"

 

Like, this is a formation I'd like to run occasionally in semi-competitive situations. It's not amazing. It's overly expensive. But hey, you could have a turn 1 double alpha-striking drop pod of TL combi-meltas/plas, and that's kind of cool, plus it would give me a place that I might actually try TDA, after reading Immer's strong support for them as combi-pod tools. Honestly, it's not much better, or even necessary better at all than just taking 2 pods of 5 combi PA WG + a wolf priest/Ulrik to PE them up, but it's a cool tool if we get to T1 it. If we don't, it is kind of... crap.

[Toasterfree]

DPA is not an auto pass reserve roll. its an auto come in on turn 1 if there is only one pod. and with the formation rules that both units arrive WHEN you roll, not IF you roll even if the DPA rule wasnt over ridden by the formation rule, the TDA wouldnt even arritve turn 1 ANYWAY unless you placed them in another pod

[Toasterfree]

 

Well not quiet a FAQ but the next best thing...

 

Message to GW.... Can you clarify the rules for the Space Wolf Thunderstrike formation please....Have emailed the FAQ team but heard nothing back.

 

If the drop pod wolf guard component of this force arrives turn 1 as per the drop pod assault rule does the wolf guard terminator squad arrive with them during turn 1 or do they have to arrive turn 2 as per the deep strike rule. If they dont do they arrive eperately turn 1 and 2 or do they need to be rolled for in turn 2. If this is the case could the wolf guard terminator be placed in a fast attack drop pod to enable both units to arrive turn 1.....

 

Response from GW.....Hey Scott,

 

Weirdly, we got asked this last week, too…

 

The formation all arrives together from turn 2 onwards using the rules for Deep Strike. The formation rules supersedes the Drop Pod Assault rule. As such, placing the Wolf Guard Terminators in another Drop Pod would not benefit the formation as they would still need to arrive by Deep Strike from the second turn onwards.

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Dan

 

you are welcome for that first email by the way

[tylerw]

DPA is not an auto pass reserve roll. its an auto come in on turn 1 if there is only one pod. and with the formation rules that both units arrive WHEN you roll, not IF you roll even if the DPA rule wasnt over ridden by the formation rule, the TDA wouldnt even arritve turn 1 ANYWAY unless you placed them in another pod

Right, I'm with you so far - however, the e-mail seems to be confusing the two things, as he says that even if you Pod in the TDA on T1, they still don't get the bonus because the TDA have not used Deep Strike to come in. My understanding is that Drop Podding units count as having "Deep Strike"d, but they seem to feel that they haven't.

[Toasterfree]

no. they are saying that the whole formation is delayed until turn 2, then you roll for the formation to come in all at one time. so on one 3+ you get two units. one in a pod, and one unit of TDA.

[tylerw]

 

Well not quiet a FAQ but the next best thing...

 

Message to GW.... Can you clarify the rules for the Space Wolf Thunderstrike formation please....Have emailed the FAQ team but heard nothing back.

 

If the drop pod wolf guard component of this force arrives turn 1 as per the drop pod assault rule does the wolf guard terminator squad arrive with them during turn 1 or do they have to arrive turn 2 as per the deep strike rule. If they dont do they arrive eperately turn 1 and 2 or do they need to be rolled for in turn 2. If this is the case could the wolf guard terminator be placed in a fast attack drop pod to enable both units to arrive turn 1.....

 

Response from GW.....Hey Scott,

 

Weirdly, we got asked this last week, too…

 

The formation all arrives together from turn 2 onwards using the rules for Deep Strike. The formation rules supersedes the Drop Pod Assault rule. As such, placing the Wolf Guard Terminators in another Drop Pod would not benefit the formation as they would still need to arrive by Deep Strike from the second turn onwards.

 

Hope that makes sense,

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

no. they are saying that the whole formation is delayed until turn 2, then you roll for the formation to come in all at one time. so on one 3+ you get two units. one in a pod, and one unit of TDA.

 

Please re-read the bolded part.

EDIT 

As I read it, it sure seems to be saying that even if you DO take a Pod, you don't get to successfully use the formation's effect on turn 1, which makes no sense.

[Toasterfree]

yeah. its still the formation being delayed until turn 2. what is your point?

 

there isnt going to be a way to get this formation into play on turn 1, unless you have something that allows you to roll all of your reserve rolls on turn 1.

[tylerw]

yeah. its still the formation being delayed until turn 2. what is your point?

 

there isnt going to be a way to get this formation into play on turn 1, unless you have something that allows you to roll all of your reserve rolls on turn 1.

Except there is no explanation for why taking a pod wouldn't other than, "It wouldn't" or something. There's nothing in the formation about being unable to come in on turn 1. The explanation above says that you CAN get it into play on turn 1 with a pod, but then you don't get the effect because the TDAs didn't deep strike, except they DID if they rode a pod.

 

What I'm trying to work out is riding in a pod deep striking, and if so, is the GW rep misunderstanding the rules on pods, thinking they do not make their contents deep strike? Because that's what my reading of the bolded sentence above is. He doesn't say they can't come into play T1 if you take a fast attack pod.

[Toasterfree]

formation rules override unit rules. this is why the pod is delayed until turn 2 even if there is only one in your entire army

[tylerw]

But it DOES NOT HAVE A RULE DELAYING IT. Like, I do not get where you are getting that in that poorly worded answer.

[Vykryl]

It's the point of a required successful reserve die roll that you are ignoring. You do not start rolling for reserves until turn 2

[tylerw]

It doesn't say that it is a requirement, just that they have 1 reserve roll...

 

They must deploy via deep strike which can be done on turn 1 with a fast attack pod.

 

In fact, under restrictions it only talks about 10 WG and the PA WG taking the pod.

[Guest loganwolf]

This is gw 2nd response on this. I saw one e on face book a few weeks ago. They are adament that t2 is earliest..... this was from the wd team however not faq.

[tylerw]

Right, I'm just not entirely grokking if they are saying it is to just because, or if theyre not realizing that a FS pod let's you do it t1 RAW.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

The trick is that deploying in a pod T1 is not a successful reserve roll. You do not roll for the pods on T1 as no reserve rolls can be made T1. Pods break the coming in from reserves on TV rule with a spe I also exception of their own which requires no roll.

 

The formation explicitly states "When rolling for reserves make a single Reserve Roll to see when this formation will arrive."

 

Therefore rules as written it only works when you roll for reserves which means not on T1.

[Toasterfree]

so if you REALLY want them to come in t1 THAT bad, they can. They won't be the formation, won' be twin linked. And you will need three pods for it. OR you can roll for them on t2, and they will both come in, and be twin linked.

 

Trust me, I was the first email to them about it, and I could see both sides of how it would work, and until GW (WD team or not which they did go ask the rules people) said that formations over rode unit rules, I was in the same boat. Frankly as long as it doesn't come from rank and file store managers (unless I am in the store at that time) I take GW answers pretty much at face value until a FAQ comes out.

[tylerw]

The trick is that deploying in a pod T1 is not a successful reserve roll. You do not roll for the pods on T1 as no reserve rolls can be made T1. Pods break the coming in from reserves on TV rule with a spe I also exception of their own which requires no roll.

 

The formation explicitly states "When rolling for reserves make a single Reserve Roll to see when this formation will arrive."

 

Therefore rules as written it only works when you roll for reserves which means not on T1.

 

That is not what the sentence you quoted means... at the most it is RAI, not RAW. It doesn't say, "You can't entirely bypass this by following the normal DP Assault rules and having 3 pods, one for the TDA to ride in."

 

 

so if you REALLY want them to come in t1 THAT bad, they can. They won't be the formation, won' be twin linked. And you will need three pods for it. OR you can roll for them on t2, and they will both come in, and be twin linked.

 

Trust me, I was the first email to them about it, and I could see both sides of how it would work, and until GW (WD team or not which they did go ask the rules people) said that formations over rode unit rules, I was in the same boat. Frankly as long as it doesn't come from rank and file store managers (unless I am in the store at that time) I take GW answers pretty much at face value until a FAQ comes out.

 

Right, and I can see them intending for the reserve roll to indicate that it can't happen T1, but then their reply actually made it read like they just don't know their rules or something, not that they were saying, "No, you don't get TL until T2 and later."