Sn4k30r Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe it sounds silly, but to be sure Do the artefact-weapons still replace regular weapons of the model? i ask cause maybe is faqed somewhere and missed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been FAQ'ed, so on your lord you have the choice between exchanging your ccw, bolt pistol, frag- or krak-grenades for an artefact, remember that this prevents your daemon prince from taking more than one artefact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4k30r Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 i was looking for Burning brand and a deamon weapon , but if you replace 1 weapon for both you lose the extra attack from ccw-Melee or B.Pistol-melee. damn.... So deamon can only pick 1 since he has 1 ccw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 For a lord you could swap your ccw for the daemon weapon and the krak grenade for the burning brand, that would make you retain your +1 attack for two weapons(pistol+daemon weapon, none of them are specialst weapons as far as I know) and your assault grenade effect from the frag grenade.Yes, your prince can only pick one since he has to discard one weapon for every artefact he chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4k30r Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nice i was wondering about Chaos lord more, are you sure i can exchange grenades? for artefacts? thats fine for me i can still buy extra blight grenades and have extra attack and trade the fraq for blight (still same and better)! Deamon prince i think is bad option anymore.... he has no grenades against cover, only t5, and he cant charge unless he was on gliding mode.... i am feeling so dissapointed about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 My rulebook is at one of my buddies, but I'm pretty sure that the krak and frag counts as a weapon. If your opponent disagrees blame a stranger on the internet. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 All the Daemon Weapons (which includes the Burning Brand) replace another weapon. The Codex also states you can replace "one" weapon so you can only have one Artifact from the list. Grenades are not classed as weapons and never have so you cannot exchange those. Don't forget too that Blight Grenades are Mark of Nurgle only too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4k30r Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ok y i know abou blight grenaders MoN, hmm..i just tried to find a way having e.g Chaos lord, 3A base, Brand and a PW still 3 right? cause both change weapons, and Brand-Deamon weapon still 3A.... with an extra D6 deamon. trying somehow to keep the extra ccw or b.pistol plus PW-Deamon , and a Brand seems i cant with no way its ok thank you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Guess I was wrong then, discard everything I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The burning brand isn't a Daemon weapon...but would replace a weapon-so Burning Brand replaces bolt pistol, Black mace replaces close combat weapon-kind of a lot of stuff on one guy. Daemon Weapons are specialist weapons that roll a d6 at the beginning of the attack phase, and on a 2+ you add that number of attacks to your model. So you'd need a power fist or Lightning claw to get +1 attack with a daemon weapon (...or another daemon weapon which is putting A LOT on a 3 wound guy without eternal warrior) A Daemon Prince with a burning brand still gets his 5 close combat attacks (at ap2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 All the Daemon Weapons (which includes the Burning Brand) replace another weapon. The Codex also states you can replace "one" weapon so you can only have one Artifact from the list. Grenades are not classed as weapons and never have so you cannot exchange those. Don't forget too that Blight Grenades are Mark of Nurgle only too. Trevak is correct, the Burning Brand is not a daemon weapon. The only artefacts listed as a daemon weapon(in the main codex) are the Axe of Blind Fury and the Black Mace. However, there is debate on how many of the artefacts you can take. Primarily because of the Crimson Slaughter supplement, which does make it clear multiple artefacts can be taken on one character(which was originally debated as being impossible when the supplement first came out). However, you are correct on the wording. Which does state "A model can replace one weapon with one of the following. Only one of each Chaos Artefact may be taken per army." Most of the gamers tend to read that as "one weapon for one Chaos Artefact". Mostly it lacks the "only" that appears in the second part of the word. So for "how" many is mostly down to gamer ruling. Will your opponent be okay facing two artefact weapons on one character? If yes, then go for it. If no? Then work around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yup, fair enough on both parts (was at least correct on the grenades though ) And there's no restriction apart from "only one per army" on the Crimson Slaughter Relics apart from who can take them (no Daemon Weapons there though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That and there are only two Artefact weapons IIRC, the sword and that one only sorcerers can get that guarantees Divinitation(I think?), so the "replace" does get hard to guarantee in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 That and there are only two Artefact weapons IIRC, the sword and that one only sorcerers can get that guarantees Divinitation(I think?), so the "replace" does get hard to guarantee in comparison.They're all under the "Relics" heading so none are Artifacts as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4k30r Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Τrevak Dal ,i know about burning brand not being a deamon weapon, but deamon weapons give +1 attack with a CCW or pistol, since it says Melee,Deamon weapon i think you are wrong its not specialist where is specified as specialist and needs a 2nd specialist? correct me if i am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Nowhere I can see does it mention daemon weapons as being specialist weapons akin to powerfists etc?Looking at page 30 and 69 in our codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Artifacts that are weapons replace weapons the model carries. Technically trading wargear weapons like grenades or bike bolters seems raw legal, but its also a bit of rules lawyering likely to cause more aggrevation than the small benefit is worth. GW rules are not tightly written enough to sustain that sort of malarky. You are also limited to trading only one weapon for an artifact on a given model. It was initially unclear whether this meant one artifact per character total, or any number of artefacts but only one weapon. This never got an faq, but the crimson slaughter supplement indirectly confirmed the latter interpretation. Existing questions include whether the black legion eye of night replaces a weapon. Raw suggests yes, but... eh. Anyway, each artifact is one per army. A given character with access to artefacts may have as many as they like, but no more than one artefact weapon, and an artefact weapon must replace a weapon the model already has. Whether an artefact is a daemon weapon or not doesn't matter, the burning brand or murder sword count towards that one per model limit just as much as the blinding axe or black mace. You cannot have more than one of these items on the same character. Daemon weapon is just a special rule that some chaos artefact weapons have. It does not make an artefact a specialist weapon unless the weapon also has that rule (iirc none that currently exist do - maybe drach'nyen? I forget). Likewise, a chaos artefact weapon is not automatically a daemon weapon. The murder sword, for example, is not one. If it were, it might actually be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There are three categories in the rulebook: Ranged Weapons Melee Weapons Grenades (no "weapons" wording) That's the easy one to argue really. As for the "how many" and "does it replace", it's likely an idea to check with your opponent in advance if possible but if you go with the wording in the Codex (CSM) then it's one Artifact to replace one weapon. And only one of each type in an army. So in practice you can give up your BP & CCW for two Artifacts (something that until today I never realised. Thank you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nowhere I can see does it mention daemon weapons as being specialist weapons akin to powerfists etc? Looking at page 30 and 69 in our codex. I got it from Abaddon's entry with his weapons, and must have just been playing that way this entire time, lol. It hasn't hampered me any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malios Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you can pay for a bolter, why not swap that for a relic like the burning brand? Its only an extra 5 points or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you can pay for a bolter, why not swap that for a relic like the burning brand? Its only an extra 5 points or so. That's not an option at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 So in practice you can give up your BP & CCW for two Artifacts (something that until today I never realised.That... well I'm not going to argue semantics, but it's certainly an interpretation open to debate at the very least. I would reccomend going over the text in question with opponents or event organizors prior to games in which you intend to do so. Additionally worth noting is that daemon princes have only a single weapon to trade, so while ypu could argue multiple artefact weapons on a lord, smith, apostle, or sorcerer, there isn't even a possibility of such for princes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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