Imperial Fists Sigismund led Force, fluffy..ish

[Frostmourne]

Hiya, this is my first attempt trying to put together a force for a Campaign which i am part of. 

Just to give you a run down of the story of the campaign, so you can see where i am coming from, its set during the Scouring or whatever its called, And Sigismund has taken a small fleet to a contested world, there are traiters and xenos (From 40k too). But the IF are the ones left defending the Imperial Defences, as per lol. 

So far I have

Sigismund, with a Primus Medicae, 10 Templars, in a Spartan. 

2 Units of 10 Breachers, with Rhinos. Solar Fists and AArmour on the Champs, and 2 melta guns in each. 

Heavy Support Squad with Heavy Bolters

Sicaran Venator

the new Deredor Dread, or however its spelled

And a Legion Scorpius. 

This leaves me with a couple hundred points to play with. 

Have i mad awful decision, and if there anything else you would add with those couple of hundred points. 

I wont be playing, a SINGLE Legion army, everyone is is playing 40k Codexes, so bear that in mind. 

What i am trying for, is for Sigismund to go wreck it ralph on the enemy brick houses, and a solid line of fire power and defensive positions. I love the idea of an implacable defence. 

Any thoughts?

Im not a fan of 20 man squads of tactical marines before you say it hehe. 

[Pavel Araghast]

Hi there.

You've got 4 heavy supports and not Perturabo's son, so you have to spend more points.

[Frostmourne]

Oh Balls, rookie mistake. Serves me right for Wish listing. Well that makes some things easier i guess. Dropping the Scorpius in that case. 

[Slips]

I'd drop the Heavy Bolter squad before I'd drop the Scorpius. Its a much better choice.

[Kor'Vesh]

So if I were dropping a heavy support choice, I'd drop the heavy bolter squad over the scorpius. The scorpius is effective at killing nearly any target with s8 ap3 and barrage, while the heavy bolters are a lot more limited, even with bs 5. I suppose they are a bit more useful if you are facing xenos, but I'd rather have the flexibility of the whirlwind, especially as I think you need a bit more anti tank. If you really want heavy bolters three heavy bolter rapiers would be a reasonable swap, as they cost less than a 5 man heavy support squad, are shootier and more durable. They also still get bs5, but lose tank hunter, but that is essentially irrelevant.

 

Secondly, breachers aren't amazingly cost effective, especially in 10 man teams. If you make them a 20 man squad and drop the rhinos you are saving 230 points, for no real decrease in killing power. You still have the Templars as troops thanks to sigismund, so you just don't need to buy two units, unless you really want to run the stone gauntlet. Personally I'd buy them an apothecary instead.

 

With all the left over points you could probably bring a spartan for the breachers to ride in or a fortification for them. You could add a nice deep striking terminator squad with shields to bring more scoring units, and more direct pain to your enemy. Another nice option to add fire power would be a fire raptor.

 

I hope that gives you some different ideas!

I'd drop the Heavy Bolter squad before I'd drop the Scorpius. Its a much better choice.

Ninja'd by Slipstreams! Dang.

[Frostmourne]

I'd drop the Heavy Bolter squad before I'd drop the Scorpius. Its a much better choice.

 You're so right, it just seems so less fluffy, but replacing them with a Rapier Squad as Kor'Vesh suggested might be a plan. 

 

And hot damn youre right about the troops! Thats game changing, and does mean i can take a unit of 20!! yay!

 

So what fortifications do you reccomend? My worry is about grabbing objectives and being reactive to the Maelstrom cards. But i would love one. 

 

And Hell yes to a Fire Raptor. 

[Dono1979]

Breachers cant take Rhinos.

[Kor'Vesh]

Glad you like some of my suggestions. Unfortunately, as I tried to write a list I've found more problems!

 

First is my own mistake - fire raptor is heavy support not fast attack, so no real help.

 

Second, a spartan is not a dedicated transport option for Templar brethren, so you'd have to buy that as heavy support too... I suppose you could go for 8 brethren with a Phobos?

 

On the fortification, I'm not sure what to pick, as I'm not too experienced with them. Obviously stubborn for you breachers and a cover save are big boosts, but it just limit you mobility somewhat. If you went this route, you need another scoring unit - but a deep striking legion terminator squad would do this. I think I'd go that way, using tartoros for mobility, and a couple of shields to tank wounds. I'd also consider a few volkite chargers in the squad, as I think they could make a mess of xenos.

 

If you really want the Spartan, you could drop one of your HS tanks, and replace that firepower with a typhon Lord of war. It's a bit dirty, but you can fit all of this in 2.5k points. So -

 

Sigismund

Primus Medicae - AA, solarite, storm shield

 

10 Templars with one solarite

20 breachers, 4 meltas, nuncio vox, vexilla, AA, Solarite

 

Apothecary - AA, augury scanner

5 tartoros termites - 3 chargers, 2 storm shields, chain fist, fist, teleportation

 

Venator

Deredo with missiles

Spartan - ceramite, flare shield

 

Typhon

 

That is about 26 points over 2.5k, but you really need more points to give the typhon another gun. Otherwise drop the typhon, put you HB rapiers back in, and spend 200 points on fortifications, or more terminators, or so small support units.

[Frostmourne]

Kor you have had the exact same thoughts I did last night. And now I am stuck.

 

I dropped the Spartan, and wacked in a Phobos, reduced the squad to 8 lads.

 

But now I feel that that isn't a hard enough Hammer for CC to stand up to other dedicated CC squads, so now that sucks.

 

Thinking now how best to use Sigismund without putting te rest of the list in crisis.

 

Slipstreams. Help.

[Kor'Vesh]

I dropped the Spartan, and wacked in a Phobos, reduced the squad to 8 lads.

 

But now I feel that that isn't a hard enough Hammer for CC to stand up to other dedicated CC squads, so now that sucks.

 

I dunno, two less guys with power swords isn't crippling. Its the kind of unit that will eat most enemies for breakfast, but it will struggle a bit against 2+ saves and invuls, but with Sigi and a serg and primus with a solarite guantlet you'd do OK. You can always use Imperial fist teleporting termies to support the unit too if needs be. The loss of 2 lascannon shots, and the (nearly) unkillable transport is the bigger problem to my mind.

 

The tough things really is trying to build the tough firebase that you are looking for (which needs heavy support slots) while delivering your brethren safely. That's why I went for a Lord of War in the above list, but you could look into either a Heavy support slot filled with multiple predators. You could also swap the deredo for a normal mortis to free a slot up.

 

Come on Slip - what are your thoughts?

[Slips]

Im in my Level Design class right now presenting our project - Ill get back to yall :x

[Frostmourne]

Gentlemen. 

I have been reading through the posts i have done before, specifically regarding Termy Wings, which would fit AWESOMELY (In my head anyway) for a Templar Army. 

So here i am thinking of the Sigs, PM, 8 Templar in a Phobos. Using Pride of the Legion

2 Units of Cataphractii Termies DS'ing in center board, SS one one, with another PM in the same armour. The Other a more Shooty one 

Then, just because i like them, an Aegis Defence line with something Shooty and Defend the Hilltop'y. Something like that. 

Thoughts?

[Slips]

If you can find my 4/4.5k Imperial Fists campaign list, I use pride of the legion in it. Granted most wargear choices therin were chosen on a wysiwyg basis.

For a Sigismund force, the most efficient, I feel is the - as you posted - 8 templar, PM, Sigismund with 2 sol gloves in the group. If you have the points, combat shields for invulnerables wouldnt be a bad idea but, not necessary.

For terminators, Id give them teleportation transponders every time. 15 pts to deepstrike on potentially 300+ point squad is great; especially if theyre footslogging. The option to also have them start off the table is nice too.

Cataphractii terminators Id use as the shooty ones over CC since we have storm shield, though if youre strapped for points SS on Cata saves 5pts per shield.

For CC terminators, in a squad of 10 id give them 8 shields and 2 plasma blasters/heavy flamers for more pre-assault / counter-assault damage. To keep them cheap, power axes on all of them though a chain fist and thunderhammer are good options to consider too. Id use tartaros for these since theyd still be able to run unlike cataphractii.

At this point, for anti air, fire raptors are rarely a bad choice and the rules for the Deredeo make it outshine the contemptor in a dedicated AA role since the former can shoot 3 ap3 missiles at 60" regardless of LoS independantly of its main weapon. The FR and Dere, however all take HS slots unlike contemptors in the elites. So to get any land raiders theyd have to be taken as dedi transports.

Fast attack, the stand out choices in my eyes are jetbikes and seekers.

 

Edit: and now that I'm not replying from my phone:

 

Going with your above idea, you could run:

 

HQ:

Siggy (230)

Terminator PM (160+)

Artificer PM (150+)

 

Troops:

8 Templar, Vexilla, Sol Glove, Melta Bombs (opt.), Nuncio Vox (no scatter on the DS) (~500)

-LR Phobos

10 Tartaros; 8 SS, 2 HF/PB, 1-2CF, 1-2 TH, rest axes, Telly Transponders (~300)

10 Cataphractii; 2 Illastus/Reaper AC, 8 Combi-Bolters/Weapons, CC gear to taste but keep relatively cheap, Telly Transponders (~300)

 

 

+++++every single entry below here is a singular option to be considered++++

20 Tac; AA, Paxe, MB, Vexilla, Nuncio. (~300)

 

Elites:

Rapier Battery; 3 Rapiers, Thudd Guns (you could fill all your elite slots with these if you really wanted)

Contemptor-Mortis; Autocannons/Lascannons (range)

Singular Apothecary for the Tac Blob

 

Fast Attack:

Jetbikes; 6-9 for optimal heavy weapons, Squad Melta Bombs, Volkite Culverins - Sarge Optional

Seekers; 10 Combi-Weapons (plasma or flamer), Nuncio-Vox, Standard Sarge Gear, Rhino (cheap) LR Proteus ($$$)

 

Heavy Support:

LR Achilles (Alpha)

Deredeo Dreadnought - Better AA and Fire Support than a Contemptor-Mortis for equivalent points at a larger range (60" missile launcher)

Fire Raptor - Need I say more?

Artillery Squadron - Medusa/Basilisk

 

These are the option that I think would fit the theme your looking for the most though the Fast Attack options fit less.

[Frostmourne]

Yes Slips. Im going to literally send you Champagne or something if i can settle on a list today. 

Okay, so going with all the options as you have, down to the bottom of the Termies, is 1640, this gives me 360 roughly to play around with for a 2k list. 

I am thinking, that the Above, is a pretty Sick Assault and mid table dominant force. So how about try and build up that Fortress Anvil at the back?

Based on that, i need some reliable Firepower. So i am thinking Deredeo Dread. Thats 1 eighty 5. Leaving me 175. I could squeeze some points somewhere, and grab a Mortis Contemptor- Mortis as well. Something like that. I would like the look of that but very little on the board to start, 1 tank and 2 Dreads. 

Maybe Dread and a Basilisk, or Pred. Some combo of Armour anyway?

But that 1640 odd seems pretty damn solid to me. 

[Slips]

If you want more Firepower less Hammer-to-the-Face, you could drop one of the Terminator squads and open up ~700 points to play with.

 

Combinations to look at for those points would be:

 

Deredeo: AC Battery, Missile Launcher, Armored Ceramite (240 points) You could take two, same loadout, for 480 points

Rapier Battery: 3x Thudd Guns (~100 points) You could take 2 of these for ~200 points.

 

Couple the two together and you've got some pretty devastating bombardment, Fire Support, Anti-Air and Anti-Tank.

The AC on the Deredeo is S8 Ap4 with Sunder and the Shatter Shells from the Thudd Guns are S8. Thats a LOT of Instant Death and denying of FNP for MEQ units or Weaker.

 

Also, with 2 Deredeos with Missile Launchers, you can potentially kill 6 Marines turn 1 due to the 60" range and ignoring Line of Sight and Ap3.

 

The above, I feel, fits the theme your looking for the most though it does leave you potentially vulnerable to CQB units arriving in your backfield by Deepstrike/outflank. Thankfully, your Deredeos can sport Twin-Linked Heavy Flamers not to mention Interceptor.

[Frostmourne]

Yes. I am loving that idea. 

3 Quad Mortars is 180 points though, not 100. So, maybe keep it at that. And i would only have one Deredeo Dread, due mostly to rule of cool, try and get a variety in there. So maybe Drop like, 2 Terminators from each squad. 

Infact, kitting roughly how i would like, brings the Templar Box, and 2 units of 8 Termies to about 1550 points. Giving me 450 to play with. 

Deredeo and 3 Mortars comes to 420. 

[Slips]

There you go. Spread the 30 points left into Upgrades for Squads and whatever and your Golden.

 

Melta Immune Dreadnought? Check! 60" threat range and a giant middle finger to Flyers/Deepstrike/Outflank? Check!

 

3+ S8 Mortar Shots that re-roll failed Armor Pens or an S4(?) that causes pinning at -1Ld? Double Check!

 

Your only infantry is in the form of 2+ saves with Invulnerable saves to boot? Check!

 

Your only vehicles are Av 14? Check!

 

Everything that matters has FNP? Check!

 

Sigismund? Check!

 

For a themed list, it looks decently solid. Sure, at 2k points only having ~27 Bodies isn't the best, but they bring relatively high firepower/CCpower into the mix. Since Terminators all have 2 attacks base, they are worth 16 MEQ's with 1 Attack each and Templars will be swinging at I5 due to Sigismund's buff. Not to mention almost all your weapons negate armor saves.

[Frostmourne]

It's certainly my type of list. And I am loving it. And pricing it up isn't as bad as I thought either!!

 

Then slowly over the months I can add bits too.

 

And when we increase to 2500 I can add some more armour.

[Phalanx Warder]

As a note to my fellow IF players, the Sol PF states that only INDEPENDENT characters may take them, I was called on this a few games ago so Sergeants are out I am afraid.

[Slips]

The Templar Brethren Champion is specifically stated as being able to take one. As such, he is the only squad Sergeant capable of taking one.

 

Its why I always shove them on my Primus Medicae: they're ICs and they can take em; in terminator armor with a Storm Shield, they still retain their Needle Pistol so have +1 Attack due to the Sol Glove not being a Specialist Weapon.

[AfroCampbell]

Hey guys I am really loving the look of this list, However I wanna know does anyone run Caestus Assault rams in lists?

Thoughts on them?

[Slips]

I haven't really given much thought to the Caestus, really. Sure, its Magna Melta and Missiles are nice + being a flyer able to tank shock, but, apart from coming in and dropping off 10 What-have-yous, I think its outshone by a Storm Eagle since it has more practical post-delivery application while costing less.

[Kor'Vesh]

Great work on the list Slip, sorry to invoke you in the midst of class! Glad you are getting there Frostmourne.

 

The Templar Brethren Champion is specifically stated as being able to take one. As such, he is the only squad Sergeant capable of taking one.

 

Its why I always shove them on my Primus Medicae: they're ICs and they can take em; in terminator armor with a Storm Shield, they still retain their Needle Pistol so have +1 Attack due to the Sol Glove not being a Specialist Weapon.

Just a note on this - though you are right about the specialist weapon, you can never get a bonus attack with the storm shield, so you have to chose defence or offence with this Primus. You might be better off going chain fist and storm shield, just for the extra AT ability in the Templar unit.

 

No idea on the Caestus - I've not considered it much as I don't really like the look of it. I've Beene rained to be dubious of flying transports though, and I think the storm eagle is a bit more flexible, and takes up a less valuable fast attack slot.

[Frostmourne]

And as of today, with the new pre orders, I can place the command set in as make shift Tenolars and save myself a lot of money hehe.

[Slips]

Great work on the list Slip, sorry to invoke you in the midst of class! Glad you are getting there Frostmourne.

The Templar Brethren Champion is specifically stated as being able to take one. As such, he is the only squad Sergeant capable of taking one.

Its why I always shove them on my Primus Medicae: they're ICs and they can take em; in terminator armor with a Storm Shield, they still retain their Needle Pistol so have +1 Attack due to the Sol Glove not being a Specialist Weapon.

Just a note on this - though you are right about the specialist weapon, you can never get a bonus attack with the storm shield, so you have to chose defence or offence with this Primus. You might be better off going chain fist and storm shield, just for the extra AT ability in the Templar unit.

No idea on the Caestus - I've not considered it much as I don't really like the look of it. I've Beene rained to be dubious of flying transports though, and I think the storm eagle is a bit more flexible, and takes up a less valuable fast attack slot.

GAH Forgot about that specific part of the Storm Shield wording.....

But to again clarify your point on the Primus with a CF and SS: Storm Shields can only be taken in Terminator Armor, Chain Fists too. If its the PM rolling with the Templars and Sigismund, he'll be in artificer armor and thus unable to take the latter two items which then, makes the Sol Glove and its S8/9 (9 if he gains Furious Charge from the Templars) Ap1 all the more enticing. Especially when you can have two in the Squad (TB Champ and PM).

For the Terminator Primus Medicae, the storm shield, to me, is non-negociable. He HAS to be as survivable as possible. His weapon, however, is up to you. I just give them all Sol Gloves 'cuz I can