Unwieldy question

[RenderDead]

I know there is no thing as a stupid question, but perhaps there is when its regarding Warhammer.

 

Unwieldy....piles in & fights @ initiative step 1.  Can this ever be modified via psychic powers / abilities? 

[Lucien Eilam]

No. It doesn't change the model's Initiative value, it just states you fight at I1, so any modifications to Initiative are irrelevant.

[Kristoff]

No. It doesn't change the model's Initiative value, it just states you fight at I1, so any modifications to Initiative are irrelevant.

Unless said power/ability/wargear/unit type specifically addresses Unwieldy, of course.

[Jacinda]

In the hierarchy of modifications (multiplications first, then additions, then set values) I cannot think of anything that could set the value to any other number but 1.   Monsterous Creatures and Walkers are not affected by Unwieldy, of course.  But no modification via powers or gear that I know of can beat set value to 1.

 

No. It doesn't change the model's Initiative value, it just states you fight at I1, so any modifications to Initiative are irrelevant.

On second thought, that is a better description of what is happening. The model with the unwieldy weapon could be forced to take an Initiative test and he would do so at his Initiative with any modifications he may have, but the unwieldy rule would not force this to be 1. While it would be amusing to see a bike sgt with PF make a hit and run move, he would still test on his normal Initiative.

 

So no. Nothing that modifies Initiative (even if it sets it to a higher number) will over ride Unwieldy.

[DarkAngeal]

Just to think for a moment here. Overwatch specifically states that it is taken as snap shots, and snap shots are defined as being taken at BS 1, and yet Tau Markerlights can modify that BS1 to something higher. Why couldn't you modify unwieldy in the same way?

[Jacinda]

Just to think for a moment here. Overwatch specifically states that it is taken as snap shots, and snap shots are defined as being taken at BS 1, and yet Tau Markerlights can modify that BS1 to something higher. Why couldn't you modify unwieldy in the same way?

Of course there are exceptions to everything. Do you know of a rule that says bearer of said unwieldy weapons can strike at I2? You never know, the new Necron codex or maybe some other future codex may have such a weapon. Then it would be a clear case of Codex trumps basic rules as is the case of the marker lights.

 

But I think the smoking gun for this situation is as Lucien stated. The Unwieldy rule does not even modify the Initiative. It just says the model "fights at Initiative step 1." So in all other cases it would use its full Initiative. Just not when it comes to its turn to swing.

[Kristoff]

In the hierarchy of modifications (multiplications first, then additions, then set values) I cannot think of anything that could set the value to any other number but 1.   Monsterous Creatures and Walkers are not affected by Unwieldy, of course.  But no modification via powers or gear that I know of can beat set value to 1.

It may not exist to our knowledge, but in the case it ever does, that is how it would work, if it specifically addressed it.

 

 

No. It doesn't change the model's Initiative value, it just states you fight at I1, so any modifications to Initiative are irrelevant.

On second thought, that is a better description of what is happening. The model with the unwieldy weapon could be forced to take an Initiative test and he would do so at his Initiative with any modifications he may have, but the unwieldy rule would not force this to be 1. While it would be amusing to see a bike sgt with PF make a hit and run move, he would still test on his normal Initiative.

 

So no. Nothing that modifies Initiative (even if it sets it to a higher number) will over ride Unwieldy.

 

Not quite. Codex trumps rulebook when creating set modifiers. This is not like Hard To Hit's Snap Fire, after all. However, as you mentioned earlier, I'm not aware of anything (aside from Unit Type) that does set an I beyond Unwieldy.

 

Just to think for a moment here. Overwatch specifically states that it is taken as snap shots, and snap shots are defined as being taken at BS 1, and yet Tau Markerlights can modify that BS1 to something higher. Why couldn't you modify unwieldy in the same way?

You can, for the exact same reason. Markerlights specifically state that they can modify the BS of a Snap Shot. So, too, can anything that specifically addresses Unwieldy or a codex item that creates a set I as well.

[markham82]

So how would a force axe work with warp speed ( +3 initiative)

[Dam13n]

You would gain +3 Initiative from Warp Speed then get reduced to Initiative 1 by Unwieldy.

 

Set Modifiers apply last and Unwieldy is a Set Modifier.

[JamesI]

So how would a force axe work with warp speed ( +3 initiative)

You would be initiative 1 to fight.

[shandwen]

I think walkers, and one or two characters are the only things that can ignore unwieldy. But those characters that swing fists at initiative may just have unwieldy removed from their weapons...

[Lysere]

Just to think for a moment here. Overwatch specifically states that it is taken as snap shots, and snap shots are defined as being taken at BS 1, and yet Tau Markerlights can modify that BS1 to something higher. Why couldn't you modify unwieldy in the same way?

 

Rules like unwieldy, snap shots, and other set modifiers require a rule to specifically override them in order for them to not apply. The Horus Heresy Imperial Fist rules for example have a character with a power fist who can choose to ignore it by following one of his rules. This of course comes with a penalty but that's not the point.