Emperor's Furor Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I still struggle to keep up with the goings on with the Alpha Legion, I think I have most of their story in one form or another but its difficult to figure out the chronological order of events and who side which part of the legion is on. So I was wondering if anyone would be interested in helping to form a run down of what we know about the Alpha Legion during the events of the Horus Heresy. This will likely have spoilers in so if you're putting off reading anything recent from the Alpha Legion then look away now! The first look at the legion appeared in Legion, it's here where the Alpha Legion was confronted by the Xenos Cabal and convinced to help Horus overthrow the Emperor in such a fashion that the suddenly blow out of the Heresy would destabilise Chaos and it would collapse in on itself. From then on it gets murky as to what is next for me. They show up in several areas with events involving numerous other legions, such as the Raven Guard where they heavily influence their early part of the Heresy. Question - is both Alpharius and Omegon on Deliverance and Kiavahr or one on each? One of them withholds part of the cloning technology from Horus, is this done out of selfishness or an ulterior motive, because with that technology and knowledge it would surely contribute to the downfall of the Imperium which was their intent in the first place right? Then there's the short story Serpent Beneath which I think is the first hint at strife within the Legion, I maybe wrong though. Here one of the Primarchs intentionally sabotages his Primarchs own plans to keep the White Scars busy. Is it Omegon who orders this to happen or Alpharius, which one could be considered the "good" primarch here, as the effects of this action, followed by their appearance in Scars seems to imply they are going again the grain and helping the Imperium. Whoever it is jettisons the Cabal agent at the end and uncovers a bare suit of power armour as well. Then there's the attack on Roboute Guilliman, a very minor one if you ask me, I don't know if it was ever meant to succeed tbh. There's the Seventh Serpent, a recent limited edition novella, where is appears one of the Primarch shows up again, he uses the same line "you only get one" at least which is used previous in Legion and elsewhere. I just read Sedition's Gate's short story on the Alphas which is a more of a traditional tale of infiltration and sabotage that has no bearing on the overall Heresy plot, although it does point out that the forces on the Mechanicum ship had no knowledge the rebellion they were going to was being stirred up by another Alpha Legion cell. So, whose the most "loyal" Primarch, are their any other stories I have missed that have a baring on their loyalty? Do we know of any future stories based on their exploits? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparika Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Maybe things got out of control and they don't even know what they are doing or even if they really have a primarch (everyone saying "I'm Alpharius" :) ). I've read far less than you but I have the same questions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3933784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 To speculate: alphas are probably cloning heavily/creating disposable marines with the stolen tech. To speculate further. I think Alpharius may have empty clones that his soul could transfer into if required. Nothing to back this up, i dont think its beyond them though Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3933836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I still struggle to keep up with the goings on with the Alpha Legion, I think I have most of their story in one form or another but its difficult to figure out the chronological order of events and who side which part of the legion is on. So I was wondering if anyone would be interested in helping to form a run down of what we know about the Alpha Legion during the events of the Horus Heresy. This will likely have spoilers in so if you're putting off reading anything recent from the Alpha Legion then look away now! The first look at the legion appeared in Legion, it's here where the Alpha Legion was confronted by the Xenos Cabal and convinced to help Horus overthrow the Emperor in such a fashion that the suddenly blow out of the Heresy would destabilise Chaos and it would collapse in on itself. From then on it gets murky as to what is next for me. Which option does the Alpha Legion choose, we are led to believe the latter do they really believe the cable? Do they see a way to to follow a third path, maybe one that ultimately benifits them. They show up in several areas with events involving numerous other legions, such as the Raven Guard where they heavily influence their early part of the Heresy. Question - is both Alpharius and Omegon on Deliverance and Kiavahr or one on each? One of them withholds part of the cloning technology from Horus, is this done out of selfishness or an ulterior motive, because with that technology and knowledge it would surely contribute to the downfall of the Imperium which was their intent in the first place right? Been a while since I read Deliverance Lost but I don't think Alpharius was there, just Omegon, some deep operatives who are pretending to be Raven Guard and those who come to support the tech guild revolt. I don't think the Alpha Legion would ever give over the gene tech even if they were fully on Horus side. What will the AL do with it, who knows, but they reversed engineered and produced mark VI armour, maybe they needed some guys to fill it. Then there's the short story Serpent Beneath which I think is the first hint at strife within the Legion, I maybe wrong though. Here one of the Primarchs intentionally sabotages his Primarchs own plans to keep the White Scars busy. Is it Omegon who orders this to happen or Alpharius, which one could be considered the "good" primarch here, as the effects of this action, followed by their appearance in Scars seems to imply they are going again the grain and helping the Imperium. Whoever it is jettisons the Cabal agent at the end and uncovers a bare suit of power armour as well. Why is letting the Scars go seen as a good option. By allowing them in to the heresy, it increases the chance of an Imperial victory, and the slow death of humanity and victory of chaos. So Omegon's actions could be seen as aiding chaos. Of course he might think they would join Horus but I don't really see Alpharius or Omegon going if assumptions. Personally I think Omegon has another plan. Then there's the attack on Roboute Guilliman, a very minor one if you ask me, I don't know if it was ever meant to succeed tbh.I agree, this seems like an action with little chance of sucess. I'm not really sure the point behind it other then as a plot reason to make the Ultramarines more paranoid. Kind of cool though. There's the Seventh Serpent, a recent limited edition novella, where is appears one of the Primarch shows up again, he uses the same line "you only get one" at least which is used previous in Legion and elsewhere. Still waiting on my copy so no comment. I just read Sedition's Gate's short story on the Alphas which is a more of a traditional tale of infiltration and sabotage that has no bearing on the overall Heresy plot, although it does point out that the forces on the Mechanicum ship had no knowledge the rebellion they were going to was being stirred up by another Alpha Legion cell. I was under the assumption the Mechanicum fleet was set for Terra, and the mission was to have supposed loyalist Titans on the ground of terra commanded by AL operatives. They were diverted by chance, I'm wondering if we will find out more about that conflict in the future, So, whose the most "loyal" Primarch, are their any other stories I have missed that have a baring on their loyalty? Do we know of any future stories based on their exploits? Other stuff to consider is Paramar. The Alpha Legion did as asked but left the system undefended. In the the end thier actions hindered Horus more then anything. If Alpharius did this for a reason or out of spite for being ordered around is Unkown but given the quote of what he sent Horous 'The Devil is not mocked' seems to be spiteful. Conquest tells us the Alpha Legion were sent to Harrow the enemy forces across the southern and western regions of the Imperium. They were allowed to do this in whatever way they deemed appropriate. That everything written so far. The only other thing I can think of is we now know that all 9 traitor legions fought at the seige of Terra ( Talon of Horus doesn't name the AL there, but does say that the 9 legions were there so...), so the Alpha Legion will be present in some aspect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3933838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Maybe things got out of control and they don't even know what they are doing or even if they really have a primarch (everyone saying "I'm Alpharius" :) ). I've read far less than you but I have the same questions. I believe this - there is no Alpharius/Omegon. Rad, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Alphatius/Omegon exists. They are a part of the lore... And speaking of Girlyman. To throw away a couple if astartes for a chance (very high chance, I might add) to kill a hated primarch is something I'd do as well. What is a handfull of marines comparef to a Primarch? In Seventh Serpent they remark how Alpharius eyes seem to reflect an inpossible amount of intrigue. I think he has comtrol over the legion still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Alphatius/Omegon exists. They are a part of the lore... Prove it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Alphatius/Omegon exists. They are a part of the lore... Prove it. Burden of proof is on you. We have numerous books. Including one where part of it is from his point of view. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 And the fact they are both described as still being just that bit taller than regular astartes. And having that presence. It may not exude from them like the other primarchs but its still there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Alphatius/Omegon exists. They are a part of the lore...Prove it. Burden of proof is on you. We have numerous books. Including one where part of it is from his point of view. "I am Alpharius" They are all Alpharius. And being a bit taller than regular Astartes. You mean like Polux, or Abaddon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 They only call themselves Alpharius to outsiders. Also, generally Alpha legionnaires are taller than the standard astartes, the Primarchs even more so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Emperor met Alpharius. You cant dupe daddy for long. And FW gave him rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 i know sarcasm doesn't really come across on the Internet, but I expected better. While a back of mind thought of me wouldn't be surprised if the entire Alpharius storyline by Black Library evolved into "there is no Alpharius", I don't truly believe that, and would be sortakinda dissappointed if that was the case. I do however believe that we've yet to meet the actual Alpharius in the setting though. Then again, Legion was one of the best books in concept and execution, but still full of gaping holes - such as if Chaos, this all knowing all powerful gestalt psychic entity created from empathic emotion ripples in an alternate dimension is wanting to cause the Heresy, and result in the destruction of the Imperium, why do the Cabal want to cause that same thing in the belief that it will destroy the Chaos Gods? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is that more sarcasm or did you stop reading legion right at that point? Genuine question not trying to be a git coz the answer to your question is given. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Oh the classic "it was sarcasm" answer. :D You "expected better", is that supposed to be insulting or something? There are all kinds of people on the internet, with all kinds of crazy theories. Don't be surprised that we took your unique stance seriously and tried to bring it in line with what BL/FW has written. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm very sarcastic, Excessus. I'm sorry I didn't make it so obvious for you by putting sarcasm tags, but that defeats the point of sarcasm, doesn't it? Like it, lump it, take it personally, I don't particularly care. But yes, sarcasm. It's a thing, not my fault you're unable to read it. When I said I expected better, I meant in regards of people to go "hoho, he's being sarcastic". I can't honestly be bothered to carry it on though, you guys are oh so serious one can't even have fun with it. Anyhow. @helterskelter. It's been a good couple of years since I've read legion - and I read it completely - however, my memory is clearly hazy. Care to enlighten a forgetful old' caustic? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Oh I love sarcasm, I use it all the time and love when people use it...though you might want to review the way you write it, since no one apparantely was smart enough to get it... Dumb it down for us the next time... ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is Paramar part of a novel or is it just in one of the FW books? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is Paramar part of a novel or is it just in one of the FW books? Paramar is only written about in Extermination I think :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Is Paramar part of a novel or is it just in one of the FW books? Paramar is only written about in Extermination I think Yup, AFAIK, its only mentioned in the Alpha Legion portion of Extermination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Well it has its own section :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Well it has its own section I stand Corrected... >_> *downs more coffee* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Fire Golem; professional pedant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3934948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The Alpha Legion is right behind you. Right now. With Mr Clean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3935125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malios Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The scene near the beginning of Deliverance Lost where Alpharius meets Horus is an important milestone for the Alpha Legion's methods of warfare on a grand scale: When Alpharius admits to Horus that the Alpha Legion has successfully infiltrated the Raven Guard, Horus can barely hide his own paranoia that the Alpha Legion may have succeeded in infiltrating the other legions including his own. This is confirmed in the Age of Darkness anthology, where the Alpha Legion succeeded in infiltrating the World Eaters. They were also able to successfully infiltrate a headhunter kill team into Ultramar to attempt an assassination on Guiliman in the Unremembered Empire. In the Seventh Serpent, they also masquerade as Iron Hands to varying levels of success. Although the other legions eventually catch on to the odd behaviour of the infiltrators, it seems that only the Space Wolves have successfully prevented infiltration. That's only the astartes operatives as well. There's no telling how many human operatives they have embedded and infiltrated in different organisations. This to me tells us that the visible strength of the Alpha Legion may only be a portion of the true strength of the Alpha Legion as a whole. They could technically be anywhere, and everywhere across the galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302680-where-are-the-alpha-legion-at-right-now/#findComment-3936430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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