Where are the Alpha Legion at right now?

[Emperor's Furor]

The scene near the beginning of Deliverance Lost where Alpharius meets Horus is an important milestone for the Alpha Legion's methods of warfare on a grand scale:

 

 

When Alpharius admits to Horus that the Alpha Legion has successfully infiltrated the Raven Guard, Horus can barely hide his own paranoia that the Alpha Legion may have succeeded in infiltrating the other legions including his own. This is confirmed in the Age of Darkness anthology, where the Alpha Legion succeeded in infiltrating the World Eaters. They were also able to successfully infiltrate a headhunter kill team into Ultramar to attempt an assassination on Guiliman in the Unremembered Empire. In the Seventh Serpent, they also masquerade as Iron Hands to varying levels of success. Although the other legions eventually catch on to the odd behaviour of the infiltrators, it seems that only the Space Wolves have successfully prevented infiltration.

 

That's only the astartes operatives as well. There's no telling how many human operatives they have embedded and infiltrated in different organisations.

 

 

This to me tells us that the visible strength of the Alpha Legion  may only be a portion of the true strength of the Alpha Legion as a whole. They could technically be anywhere, and everywhere across the galaxy.

There's also

 

 

The infiltration of the Alpha Legion into the Iron Warriors in the Audio Drama Eagle's Talon. They literally say they've infiltrated the legion. They also show up in the Novella Tallarn Executioner now I remember it.

 

[jeremy1391]

To answer the question simply

*whispers* everywhere......

;)

[Slips]

They're the Schrodinger's Legion: everywhere and nowhere all at once until observed. 

[Daemon2027]

They're the Schrodinger's Legion: everywhere and nowhere all at once until observed.

 

And that is the point of letting Horus know. And maybe why they threw a kill squad at Guiliman. Paranoia is as much a weapon as a bolter. If the leaders of the heresy are always scrutinising thier own men for signs of the Alpha Lgion, there less likely to see what the Alpha Legion are really up to.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The Alpha Legion are becoming the new space wolves of the heresy. They seem to be able to do everything everyone else can do and still somehow be the perfect secret agents that can only be defeated by themselves.

 

It's just impossible for them to be portrayed this way without making sense...

[Emperor's Furor]

The Alpha Legion are becoming the new space wolves of the heresy. They seem to be able to do everything everyone else can do and still somehow be the perfect secret agents that can only be defeated by themselves.

 

It's just impossible for them to be portrayed this way without making sense...

I think Extermination did a good job at showing how the Alpha Legion ain't all that and things can go wrong. I was on the same page as you for a while especially since I hate some of their 40k exploits, but I've seen some different sides to them, ultimately they need to have some big successes otherwise they'd be an infiltration specialist legion who fails all the time and then they choose the traitor side and end up losing there to.

[Augustus]

That's a good point WP. They seemed to only be undone by their own actions or inactions. I want to see their confidence and arrogance get them beat in a straight up fight.

[Memento Of Prospero]

That's a good point WP. They seemed to only be undone by their own actions or inactions. I want to see their confidence and arrogance get them beat in a straight up fight.

 

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style. 

 

@ WoT the infiltration specialists are the Raven Guard. This is what annoys me most about the whole depiction of the Alphas. They are Raven Guard 2.0. They do everything Corax's legion does, and then some...

[Emperor's Furor]

 

That's a good point WP. They seemed to only be undone by their own actions or inactions. I want to see their confidence and arrogance get them beat in a straight up fight.

 

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style. 

 

@ WoT the infiltration specialists are the Raven Guard. This is what annoys me most about the whole depiction of the Alphas. They are Raven Guard 2.0. They do everything Corax's legion does, and then some...

 

Yeah but the Raven Guard infiltrate in battle, the Alpha Legion literally infiltrates an enemies forces with their own agents and sometimes themselves. Either way I see your point, but don't other legions share common specialities? There's been numerous discussions on other legions fulfilling the same roles but in a slightly different way, this is just the same with the Alpha Legion and Raven Guard.

[Fire Golem]

 

That's a good point WP. They seemed to only be undone by their own actions or inactions. I want to see their confidence and arrogance get them beat in a straight up fight.

 

 

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style. 

 

@ WoT the infiltration specialists are the Raven Guard. This is what annoys me most about the whole depiction of the Alphas. They are Raven Guard 2.0. They do everything Corax's legion does, and then some...

There's a difference between the RG and the AL. Quite subtle, I grant you, but it's there. The Raven Guard will infiltrate themselves, hiding in the shadows, finding vantage points for their snipers, all about stealth and guerrilla warfare. Alpha Legion will infiltrate their people into positions in the enemy forces where they can wreak havoc with sabotage, and then will strike in the correct points to ensure victory. So they aren't RG2.0, they are there own distinct legion with their own style of warfare.

 

It's quite hard to describe because it is fairly subtle, but they are different.

[Wade Garrett]

 

 

That's a good point WP. They seemed to only be undone by their own actions or inactions. I want to see their confidence and arrogance get them beat in a straight up fight.

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style.

 

@ WoT the infiltration specialists are the Raven Guard. This is what annoys me most about the whole depiction of the Alphas. They are Raven Guard 2.0. They do everything Corax's legion does, and then some...

"I must kill you, Alpharius!" the Battle King roared, thrusting his gladius into the traitor Primarch's heart.

 

"No, Roboute." His opponent whispered, as the life fled from his body. "I'm not Alpharius. You are."

 

And then Guilliman was Alpharius.

[Gree]

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was secretly revealed to be just a body double and everything went Just as Planned for Alpharius. That would pretty much fit in their current depiction wouldn't it?

[Emperor's Furor]

I reckon eventually Alpharius turns to chaos but Omegon stays loyal and is just a missing Primarch like Vulkan etc.

[Captain Idaho]

Since the Index Astartes has been "corrected" by the Heresy series so far, I doubt we'll see the battle between the Ultramarines and the Alpha Legion as anything but a separate story.

 

I'd even hazard a guess that, if one of the twins is actually loyal whilst the other isn't, the tragedy of the Heresy will likely pit Guilliman Killing the wrong Primarch and the Alpha Legion prevented from doing something spectacular to help the loyalists. Guilliman was notable for destroying a sizable Chaos fleet moving to reinforce House - what if it turns out it was aiding the loyalist forces?

 

That's the sort of tragedy I expect we'll see ;)

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was secretly revealed to be just a body double and everything went Just as Planned for Alpharius. That would pretty much fit in their current depiction wouldn't it?

 

Is this the old article about the death of Alpharius in the Index Astartes Article? If so, it was stated to be a load of rubbish in an in universe conversation IIRC with an AL operative, as well as the rest of the information contained within that same IA Article depicted as being rumours (from the coming of Alpharius, to the colour scheme) that are rubbished and false truths.

 

I'd love to see the ultimate irony of that battle actually killing Alpharius, however, and that same "in universe" conversation being the result of the destruction of the denucleated Alpha Legion heirarchy, and none of them actually believing the "lies".

[Ammonius]

 

 

That's a good point WP. They seemed to only be undone by their own actions or inactions. I want to see their confidence and arrogance get them beat in a straight up fight.

This will happen once Guilliman decides to Decapitate the Hydra, Hercules style.

 

@ WoT the infiltration specialists are the Raven Guard. This is what annoys me most about the whole depiction of the Alphas. They are Raven Guard 2.0. They do everything Corax's legion does, and then some...

"I must kill you, Alpharius!" the Battle King roared, thrusting his gladius into the traitor Primarch's heart.

 

"No, Roboute." His opponent whispered, as the life fled from his body. "I'm not Alpharius. You are."

 

And then Guilliman was Alpharius.

 

Confirmed: Lucius the Eternal is actually Alpharius.

 

 :)

[Captain Idaho]

That article is full of fallacies. "The Alpha Legion were tall like their Primarch," oh is that right? Right there you know it doesn't marry up with the Heresy series.

[Fire Golem]

That article is full of fallacies. "The Alpha Legion were tall like their Primarch," oh is that right? Right there you know it doesn't marry up with the Heresy series.

They are tall like their Primarch... Alpharius is still taller than a marine, he's just shorter than the other Primarchs. And the AL are relatively near him in height.

[Captain Idaho]

That's clutching at semantics. In descriptive prose, you use context and precedent to help establish an effective picture in the mind of the reader. You're making a connection knowing additional knowledge about Alpharius that a reader isn't expected to know when you describe something.

 

This circumstance would be terribly misleading for any audience; tall like someone else would imply that person is notable for size, which is clearly not the case with the Primarch twins of the Alpha Legion.

 

As an example; Angron was massive in musculature. If I say a World Eater was strong and broad like his Primarch Angron, it correctly demonstrates to the audience a characteristic of Angron he is notable for whilst emphasising the World Eater is particularly beefy.

 

If it turned out Angron was small compared to his peers, then the World Eater, like his Primarch, is implied to be small compared to his peers.

 

Unless you are saying the Alpha Legion are tall like their Primarch(s); small compared to other Space Marines? ;)

[Emperor's Furor]

Since the Index Astartes has been "corrected" by the Heresy series so far, I doubt we'll see the battle between the Ultramarines and the Alpha Legion as anything but a separate story.

I'd even hazard a guess that, if one of the twins is actually loyal whilst the other isn't, the tragedy of the Heresy will likely pit Guilliman Killing the wrong Primarch and the Alpha Legion prevented from doing something spectacular to help the loyalists. Guilliman was notable for destroying a sizable Chaos fleet moving to reinforce House - what if it turns out it was aiding the loyalist forces?

That's the sort of tragedy I expect we'll see

Sounds good but I hope it doesn't happen, that sort of thing happens so much in the 40k universe etc that it ceases to become a twist and becomes the norm.

[Fire Golem]

That's clutching at semantics. In descriptive prose, you use context and precedent to help establish an effective picture in the mind of the reader. You're making a connection knowing additional knowledge about Alpharius that a reader isn't expected to know when you describe something.

This circumstance would be terribly misleading for any audience; tall like someone else would imply that person is notable for size, which is clearly not the case with the Primarch twins of the Alpha Legion.

As an example; Angron was massive in musculature. If I say a World Eater was strong and broad like his Primarch Angron, it correctly demonstrates to the audience a characteristic of Angron he is notable for whilst emphasising the World Eater is particularly beefy.

If it turned out Angron was small compared to his peers, then the World Eater, like his Primarch, is implied to be small compared to his peers.

Unless you are saying the Alpha Legion are tall like their Primarch(s); small compared to other Space Marines? ;)

I just read it as 'they're tall, like their primarch'. Their Primarch is tall. Not compared to other Primarchs, but that doesn't say he's tall relative to other Primarchs. It just says tall. And the AL are nearly as tall as Alpharius, so they're tall, like their Primarch.

[Captain Idaho]

Look at this way; if you did not know Alpharius was a small Primarch, what would you take from the description "tall like their Primarch"?

 

There is a saying in the UK, "he's tall/strong/clever/etc like his daddy". It wouldn't make sense if the daddy was short/weak/stupid. It would be ironic instead.

 

Before we had the Heresy Series of novels we only had the Index Astartes. When we were given a description of Alpharius, it was this article only. Taking the information from it, everybody assumed Alpharius was tall.

 

Especially as the rest of the description describes him as Horus' equal.

[Emperor's Furor]

I think they can change their size, to make them seem more formidable or easier to blend in :P

[Fire Golem]

Well, I was only going on your quote and having read the newer stuff first I probably read it differently, yeah. Especially with the bit about Horus. Apologies.

[Captain Idaho]

Well, I was only going on your quote and having read the newer stuff first I probably read it differently, yeah. Especially with the bit about Horus. Apologies.

Well no need to apologise. Just a decent discussion that's all.

 

But I do still stand by statement that that Index Astarts article is full of propagand.