Using legions in 40k

[sedobren]

I don't know if this is the right section, anyway: since in my club we usually 40k, what are your suggestions to make legions enjoyable against other 40 armies (and using the BRB detachment i guess)?

Not that they are under powered or overpowered (though i think some, like my Soh, are underpowered a bit) because of the lack of ATSKNF or because they can play pretty toys, but because i feel that they are good when you exploit one of their strengh (or synergies) and play that way but in a standard 40k game, against polished list (which i will play against for sure against unfortunately), they may lack some versatility.

[Komrk]

of my 5 losses, 4 of them were under 1k. Once you get over 1k you should be on par with them and over 2k you should have a slight edge on them

[Slips]

In Apoc Games we definitely have an Edge.

 

Oh, whats that? You can't deal with 3 Spartans, a Glaive/Primarch, 30 Terminators, 80 Tac Marines (all with FNP), Anti-Air For Days and immunity to Melta?

 

...Well, thats just too bad :D

[Galron]

I always play versus 40k armies. I have lost some and won most, but that's mostly due to my group not wanting to change its tactics to face me. I don't field competitive lists, but obviously a legion lists plays a bit different than a normal marine list, not to mention there isn't one way of doing it like most codices have. Its like any time a new guy from a different meta moves to a new long term meta, his list will either do really well due to the opponents not knowing how to face them, or really bad if they already have something worse.

[shaun03]

Win some lose some, it doesn't fall in auto win just because you brough a FW army/units. In smaller games under 1k and under some army's have ac edge. Things can get silly around the 3k range and once you hit apoc level it can get painful but fun.

 

What legion are you playing and type of ROW as they can impact 40k more than 30k imo.

 

higher points means more room for low which can lead to players crying unfair. Typhoon dropping Auto death pie plates may cause that look from across the table.

[AekoldHelbrass]

I'd say that up to 2500pts you're under strength with 30k with most rites of war and army lists (of course there are munchkins who can write unbeatable list even on 1000pts with 30k). Somewhere around 2500pts it starts to be balanced. There are couple of reasons for that:

 

1. Almost no Fearless units, and you're paying premium price for Stubborn. Means that in close combat, if you lose you're most probably dead, even if you paid full 300pts for huge tactical squad.

 

2. Hard to get Eternal Warrior and most of Praetors are only T4. Which means that epic duels between warlords are usually against you, and even missile launchers can kill your walord with single hit.

 

3. Special weapons go by squads. Only expensive units can take plasma or meltaguns as "1 per 5 models", special support must pay for every model. It is much harder to use those units properly, often they will not return invested points.

 

4. Jump packs are usually extremely costly, limiting maneuvrability of your army.

 

5. There are no counters in 40k to some of the units, so your opponents will scream bloody murder if you will suddenly drop a unit of Destroyers with 2 AP3 blast missile launcher and AP2 blast Phospex bomb. And believe me, no one will notice that it costs you 400pts to field that unit, they will still scream that you're a cheater and 30k is unbalanced and they do not want to play against you any more. The same is true for some Legion-specific units and for Volkite Culverins.

[shaun03]

Good point's.

 

Vilkite weapons in general get the golly gee, nids, guard, and elder player scream and cry before you put them down.

 

Unbalanced lies on both ends, 30k list lack AA and outside of few legion units and primarch there no beatstick in CC. You said it right with fearless one bad roll and you grabbing your ankles.

 

Over all as long as option knows your fielding 30k there shouldn't be issues. I have player welcome the change even calling out my legion list and asking for non friendly builds.

 

The key to remember it's just a game.

[Dono1979]

higher points means more room for low which can lead to players crying unfair. Typhoon dropping Auto death pie plates may cause that look from across the table.

 

Not at all, in fact it is the other way around, 40K, by default, has a LoW slot now without ANY points restrictions, where as the 30K lists have the 25%. In fact 40K lists can take multiple LoW's by simply building a list with multiple Combined Arms Detachments (each one has a LoW slot), 40K can stomp 30K list in regards to Super Heavies without even trying.

 

The balancing points appears to be around 1750-2250, that's where (most of the time) the two formats line up reasonably well. Below that 30K lists tend to be quite constrained in what they can take and struggle to be able to field effective counters, while above that points level is where the 30K lists can really start spreading their wings and taking potent toys and combinations which the 40K lists simply dont have access to.

 

 

[shaun03]

Vaild points,

 

Running more thsn one CAD would help, but once you hit apoc point level 30k is shinning, on paper 40k can field more LOW there normal size characters really don't stand a match for any primach, the battelibg of super heavys is slightly in favor 30k but at cost to man power.

I am not super heavy player I am actively shopping got super heavy for my XX legion, so I can't base on whose super heavy out beats who.

 

on other know primach do more in low spots, I'll use Dante and Seth two I am know and use, while each one is cheaper than primach, they don't stack up, Dante is beast in 40k and makes the BA more robust and powerful. Doesn't compre to day alpharius for army wide bluff and can control the flow of the game. Now Seth is imo is shouldn't be low as written he is really week, but toss him up against Konrae and he looks like long guard men.

 

There a reason low are cheaper and don't have point restrictions 40k there just not powerful enough to control a list. Yes I know the counter is well no lets my low play. That is sad trend in 40k. 30k needs point requirements for our low there more powerfully and 30k has interal blance system,

Again this all from my point of view not saying my way is right at all. Just some observations I have.

 

30k can be fun play against 40k list,

[sedobren]

I understand that 40k uses more small units tactics (and i play gk also, so i can't really move far from small units tactics without using a lot of points). i'll try bumped up 2000 points games and see how my 20-or-so space marines (and 15 assault reavers) blobs perform, But i feel those 150 extra points, over regular 1850 games, might get useful to have some cheap tactical support squad (maybe with volkites to deal with light vehicles spam/ necrons?) inside a rhino to get to objectives.

[Nusquam]

Also be aware that when it comes to 30k v 40k it's either both sides use Age of Darkness rules or both use the standard BRB method. So limits on things like LoWs/25%, detachments etc work both ways. So it evens the playing field more in terms of army construction, but the other above points still stand.