Favourite Grey Knights Novels?

[SyNidus]

What's yours? I'm looking for a really good GK story on par with ADB's work if available, otherwise, as long as it's not C.S.Goto, I'll be fine with it. Cheers gents

[Chandrian]

Might not be on par wit ADB and its not a novel (Audio Book :P)  but "Mortarion's Heart"  was a really good Grey Knight story!

[Quozzo]

• Grey Knights I thought is really good. 

Dark Adeptus is good too.

Witness is fantastic as it is about an imperial guard who is being questioned by an inquisitor. GK are seldom mentioned, but brilliant non the less as it depicts Grey Knight for what they are, mysterious figures that are nothing but myths in the eyes of the Imperium.

[Grand Master Caloth]

Honestly, I liked the novella "Sacrifice"

[Reclusiarch Darius]

'Emperor's Gift' is the seminal novel about Grey Knights. It's very hard to match that tale. I recommend it to even non-GK players, it's that good. 

 

'Mortations Heart' is great as well, although for different reasons. We get Draigo's story (or at least a part of it), and it answers a lot of the rabid internet stupidity around him. Not that any of the trolls care, but it does rebut them nonetheless. Worth reading because its a story about how the Grey Knights lose hard, and then have a sort of pyhrric victory desecrating a Daemon Primarch. 

 

The original Ben Counter trilogy does show its age, but I think it still holds up fine (you'll have to ignore a few oddities, like a GK Chaplain etc, but it's otherwise fairly compatible with our codex stuff and more recent novels). 'Hammer of Daemons' gives an answer to all the Chaos GK stupidity, by demonstrating just what it means to be a GK. Falling is a choice. 

 

'Malediction' is worth reading, despite how short it is. It also dovetails into 'Incorruptible', which was pretty decent as well. Nothing on the par of 'Emperor's Gift', but good nonetheless (they're short stories anyway). 

[Gentlemanloser]

'Mortations Heart' is great as well, although for different reasons. We get Draigo's story (or at least a part of it), and it answers a lot of the rabid internet stupidity around him. Not that any of the trolls care, but it does rebut them nonetheless. Worth reading because its a story about how the Grey Knights lose hard, and then have a sort of pyhrric victory desecrating a Daemon Primarch

No it doesn't.

"We've planned this battle for centuries. We sacrified Planets and billions of lives to make it happen. Oh, I think it will be a good idea to teleport into battle without my Helmet. So Dragio can get an on field Promotion when I die becuase I've left myself unprotected."

The whole story was shoe horned to try to make Wards rediculous fluff work.

It's my shame I've not got round to reading Emperor's Gift yet. So can't comment on that one.

As for the Ben Counter Trilogy, I enjoyed the first book immensely. Would recomend that. The second is ok, but the Third isn't a GK book at all. It's more like a Conan in space opera.

There's also scant mention of the GK (IIRC) in C.S. Goto's Deathwatch books. If you don't mind Goto's rampant disconect of the fluff, and some outrageous acts, then you might want to look at them as well.

as long as it's not C.S.Goto

Opps. ;) Deathwatch is out then. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

No it doesn't.

"We've planned this battle for centuries. We sacrified Planets and billions of lives to make it happen. Oh, I think it will be a good idea to teleport into battle without my Helmet. So Dragio can get an on field Promotion when I die becuase I've left myself unprotected."

Eh, Rule of Cool. Marine characters don't wear their helmets all the time in stories. I make a point to keep my characters head-gear firmly in place, unless severe damage or plot demands removal.

The whole story was shoe horned to try to make Wards rediculous fluff work.

Not to re-open old wounds, but Ward did nothing wrong. It's the insane over-reaction of the bitter grognards on /tg/ and other cesspools on the net that fuelled all that. I still have zero problem with the description of Draigo in the 5th edition codex. GW making the effort to explain to the fanbase why it's actually completely within canon (because gee I dunno, the most talented Grey Knight in a generation, a warrior trained to counter warp-craft, has no chance against a creature who sacrificed mortal life for immortal power?) is actually a big gesture. Primarchs can die, and Daemon Primarchs by definition leave themselves open to attack on their warp nature by giving up their ability to live in the mortal plane. There are drawbacks to being a Daemon Prince, one of which is that you're now a Daemon. Der.

It's my shame I've not got round to reading Emperor's Gift yet. So can't comment on that one.

PM me now

As for the Ben Counter Trilogy, I enjoyed the first book immensely. Would recomend that. The second is ok, but the Third isn't a GK book at all. It's more like a Conan in space opera.

Which is great. I was getting a little bored with Book 2, as it was a re-tread in many ways (a pre-Imperial super-titan that fires Daemons as bullets was hilariously awesome though). 'Hammer of Daemons' is the departure from normal that the series needed. I'm really annoyed they never picked up Justicar Alaric again, except as a short about how Grey Knight weaponry and wargear is created (cool, but largely side material). Alaric is in a really interesting place at the end of Book 3.

There's also scant mention of the GK (IIRC) in C.S. Goto's Deathwatch books. If you don't mind Goto's rampant disconect of the fluff, and some outrageous acts, then you might want to look at them as well.

Goto is hellspawn we banished long ago. Invoking his name is dangerous, brother.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Eh, Rule of Cool. Marine characters don't wear their helmets all the time in stories.

 

Rule of cool is cool. ;)  But it jars with the stoeies set up.

 

Centuries in the planning.  Billions sacrified.  Planets killed.

 

All to get the fight to happen at the right time, in the right place.

 

All that effort, planning, dedication and sacrifice.

 

Marred by such a foolish, rookie, mistake from the *Supreme Grand Master* of the Grey Kngihts.

 

That's not cool.  That's darwin awards territory. ;)

 

 

 

Not to re-open old wounds, but Ward did nothing wrong.

 

It's ok, we can admit he did.  Even if we desperately want him back for his rules/crunch.

 

Dragio's story could have been *awesome*.  Grim Dark sacrifice at its finest.

 

Instead it was written as ZOMG finest warp dust SUPERPOWER!  Much like Denzil in Equilizer.  Good film.  Marred by the fact Denzil is ZOMG PWN!  And so much better than *everyone* else.  There's no threat to him, no tension.

 

 

 

 I'm really annoyed they never picked up Justicar Alaric again, except as a short about how Grey Knight weaponry and wargear is created

 

As far as I'm aware, that short is supposed to happen after Hammer?  IF that's the case, it basically ruins Alaric's journey thorugh the trillogy.

 

Alaric shouldn't have returned to the GK.  He was an Inquisitor.  And potentially a Radical one at that.

 

 

 

Goto is hellspawn we banished long ago. Invoking his name is dangerous, brother. 

 

I focused my essence into my sub dermal silver etched hexagrammic wards before mentioning him.  I made my Ward save. ;)

 

Now, should we move onto ADB letting Grimmar lop off a GKGM's head, before the said GKGM could even draw his sowrd?

 

>;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Rule of cool is cool. But it jars with the stoeies set up.

Centuries in the planning. Billions sacrified. Planets killed.

All to get the fight to happen at the right time, in the right place.

All that effort, planning, dedication and sacrifice.

Marred by such a foolish, rookie, mistake from the *Supreme Grand Master* of the Grey Kngihts.

That's not cool. That's darwin awards territory.

Also hand in hand with Rule of Cool is Rule of Just As Planned. Tzeentch is everything, at all times, everywhere. ;)

It's ok, we can admit he did. Even if we desperately want him back for his rules/crunch.

Dragio's story could have been *awesome*. Grim Dark sacrifice at its finest.

Instead it was written as ZOMG finest warp dust SUPERPOWER! Much like Denzil in Equilizer. Good film. Marred by the fact Denzil is ZOMG PWN! And so much better than *everyone* else. There's no threat to him, no tension.

Nah, I disagree. I think some of Ward's errors were compounded in our new dex, and some of his best contributions were gutted. I think the background is fine, didn't change that much between 5th and 7th. Got a bit more fleshed out if anything.

Grim sacrifice isn't the point. Grey Knights die heroically all the time, they're like a Chapter of super-heroes. We even have Space Jesus (sadly retconned, but he may yet return...) for that exact 'dies so his brothers can preval' type. Draigo's story is actually one of futility. The Chaos Gods can't break him, or kill him, or even manipulate him (beyond sending him back to crush opposing daemonic forces, which is as close as he gets to being turned really). So, it's a stalemate, for both. Draigo did mess up the place for a bit, but everything grew back. So, he's now like an insect in amber, trapped because he's an obstacle they need out of the way.

That's the part people miss. Yes, Draigo is a prodigy, and the most talented Grey Knight in a generation (nearly Janus-tier). He's never going to break, and never going to give up hope. Yes, he reks every Daemon sent to kill or enslave him, because he's that good. Hue hue, Grey Knights are good at nuking Daemons to begin with, and he's their best warrior. Do the math kids. However, all his efforts are in vain, and he knows it. Chaos will eventually triumph, humanity will fall, and the Grey Knights will die out with the current generation (as their will be no Imperium to resupply them, and they'll be overwhelmed). That's gonna be the future...unless Emps comes back and slaps Abbadon back into next Tuesday.

Draigo is basically an analogy for the whole Chapter. All the millions of Grey Knights that have died to save the Imperium, down ten thousand years of unbroken loyalty, are worth nothing. Because the Despoiler is coming, and hell follows him with everything they've got. Everyone else is tainted or unable to stop that threat, but the Grey Knights have no leader, and are stretched to breaking point across the Imperium. They probably lost significant strength at the Eye just delaying the 13th Black Crusade, so the Navy and Guard could pour enough forces in to slow Abbadon down. That failed, so now its Terra or bust.

As far as I'm aware, that short is supposed to happen after Hammer? IF that's the case, it basically ruins Alaric's journey thorugh the trillogy.

Alaric shouldn't have returned to the GK. He was an Inquisitor. And potentially a Radical one at that.

No its before his first mission in the original books. They make that very clear. Dvorn is still with him.

I focused my essence into my sub dermal silver etched hexagrammic wards before mentioning him. I made my Ward save.

But did you cast the blood of twelve innocent children into a pyre of broken promises and dreams? The taint may still linger, brother.

Now, should we move onto ADB letting Grimmar lop off a GKGM's head, before the said GKGM could even draw his sowrd?

Grimnar is awesome. Nuff said. Also, talking in meta terms, it perfectly heightens the tension, and gives the Wolves a win that proves their point. Joros was being extremely narrow minded, and if he'd actually stood up to the Inquisition instead of being their lackey (purely for Chapter politics btw), the whole pointless conflict could've been avoided.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

Grim sacrifice isn't the point. Grey Knights die heroically all the time, they're like a Chapter of super-heroes. We even have Space Jesus (sadly retconned, but he may yet return...) for that exact 'dies so his brothers can preval' type. Draigo's story is actually one of futility. The Chaos Gods can't break him, or kill him, or even manipulate him (beyond sending him back to crush opposing daemonic forces, which is as close as he gets to being turned really). So, it's a stalemate, for both. Draigo did mess up the place for a bit, but everything grew back. So, he's now like an insect in amber, trapped because he's an obstacle they need out of the way. 

 

That would be fine.  But it wasn't writeen like that.

 

There was no epmhasis on the futility.  Of the Daemon finally getting ultimate revenge on Draigo by trapping him in the warp for eternity.

 

It was written purely as DRAIGO GOES EVERYWHERE AND SMASHES EVERYTHING.  And all are scared of him...

 

It was far to OTT, and Draigo is written as the ultimate bad :cuss of bad :cusses

 

His storey could have been awesome.

 

Dedication, duty, sacrifice, loss, futility, eternal war and damnation.  Everything the setting needed.

 

It wasn't. :(

 

 

 

No its before his first mission in the original books. They make that very clear. Dvorn is still with him. 

 

Ah good good.  Was having a topic about this a while ago and this story used as proff Alaric went back to the GK after 'Hammer'.

 

Glad that wasn't correct.

 

Alaric is an Inquisitor now.  Most Likely Radical.  And no 'GK' has every fallen to Chaos. ;)

 

 

 

But did you cast the blood of twelve innocent children into a pyre of broken promises and dreams? The taint may still linger, brother.

 

I submit myself to the Rituals of Purity.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

That would be fine. But it wasn't writeen like that.

There was no epmhasis on the futility. Of the Daemon finally getting ultimate revenge on Draigo by trapping him in the warp for eternity.

It was written purely as DRAIGO GOES EVERYWHERE AND SMASHES EVERYTHING. And all are scared of him...

It was far to OTT, and Draigo is written as the ultimate bad of bad :cusses

His storey could have been awesome.

Dedication, duty, sacrifice, loss, futility, eternal war and damnation. Everything the setting needed.

It wasn't.

But it was. Even in the 5th edition version, they made it clear all of Draigo's smashery was undone and the Ruinous Powers unaffected. He's just cursed to wander their realm, unable to leave but unable to be broken or destroyed. Hence, stalemate.

Ah good good. Was having a topic about this a while ago and this story used as proff Alaric went back to the GK after 'Hammer'.

Glad that wasn't correct.

Alaric is an Inquisitor now. Most Likely Radical. And no 'GK' has every fallen to Chaos.

Yeah it's heavily hinted he becomes an Inquisitor.

I submit myself to the Rituals of Purity.

Good. Head to the Purifiers chambers below. Castellan Crowe shall administer the ritual beatings, with the Paddle of Admonition,

[Gentlemanloser]

But it was. Even in the 5th edition version, they made it clear all of Draigo's smashery was undone and the Ruinous Powers unaffected. He's just cursed to wander their realm, unable to leave but unable to be broken or destroyed. Hence, stalemate.

 

Might have been subtly implied.

 

But the passage was full of SMASHED THE MOST PRECIOUS THINGS!!  NO ONE WILL FACE HIM!!  EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL ARE SCARED!!

 

It's not really a stalemate written like that.

 

Sure, Draigo can't come back to the really real world.  And in time, everything he destroys is rebuilt.

 

But he's the ultimate anti Chaos party pooper.

 

Chaos, in thier own private sanctums, can't have good things.  As when they rebuild, Draigo comes along and smashed them to a pulp.

 

So they rebuild...

 

And Draigo smashed them to a pulp!!

 

Chaos' own home ground is no longer thier safe haven.  It's totally at the mercy of Draigo and his ultimate smashabililty.

 

That's not a stalemate.

 

That a massive win for Humanity.

 

 

Good. Head to the Purifiers chambers below. Castellan Crowe shall administer the ritual beatings, with the Paddle of Admonition, 

 

Thank you sir, may I have another!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Might have been subtly implied.

 

But the passage was full of SMASHED THE MOST PRECIOUS THINGS!!  NO ONE WILL FACE HIM!!  EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL ARE SCARED!!

 

It's not really a stalemate written like that.

 

Well, you have to appreciate that the warp isn't an actual place. So, Draigo doing those things is more like the Ruinous Powers each having a go at trying to tempt or break him, and failing miserably when encountering his will and faith. Because they failed, he hurt them temporarily, but due to their unimaginable power they're not permanently affected. Hence, the Garden grows back, the Handmaidens are simply thought into existence again, Tzeentch fortress re-assembles etc. Khorne still sends his champions after Draigo, but that's because he's stubborn and it's the Blood God's nature to never refuse the prospect of combat. 

 

The Ruinous Powers aren't scared (they can't feel fear at all), but they're annoyed with Tzeentch. One of his puppets put this rock in their otherwise liquid world, and it refuses to wear down. So, they've given up trying to kill or turn him, and now they just lead him in circles. 

 

It's quite clearly a stalemate when neither side can make any kind of final victory. Draigo can't win (he can't escape due to the curse, and the False Gods won't let him go anyway), but the Ruinous Powers can't end him until Emps is dead (as that is where his power comes from). 

Sure, Draigo can't come back to the really real world.  And in time, everything he destroys is rebuilt.

 

But he's the ultimate anti Chaos party pooper.

 

Chaos, in thier own private sanctums, can't have good things.  As when they rebuild, Draigo comes along and smashed them to a pulp.

 

So they rebuild...

 

And Draigo smashed them to a pulp!!

 

Chaos' own home ground is no longer thier safe haven.  It's totally at the mercy of Draigo and his ultimate smashabililty.

 

That's not a stalemate.

 

That a massive win for Humanity.

 

Well, he only did his smash run once. He now just wanders the wastes, as it were. Khorne still comes after him, but the others just lock him out and force him to wander alone forever (well time has no meaning in the warp, but you get the idea, insect in amber etc). 

 

Humanity didn't win anything. The Ruinous Powers are making good progress to Terra with their pawn, and soon the Anethema will be dead. Once Emps is gone, the Grey Knights lose their source of power, and besides their mundane and non-Emps defences/weapons, are pretty screwed. Not to mention humanity is doomed to extinction. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, you have to appreciate that the warp isn't an actual place. So, Draigo doing those things is more like the Ruinous Powers each having a go at trying to tempt or break him, and failing miserably when encountering his will and faith.

 

Except there are the places those powers reside in.  Their homes.  Like the Plague Garden and T's city.

 

Which got burned down and smashed up.

 

 

 

Because they failed, he hurt them temporarily, but due to their unimaginable power they're not permanently affected. Hence, the Garden grows back, the Handmaidens are simply thought into existence again, Tzeentch fortress re-assembles etc. Khorne still sends his champions after Draigo, but that's because he's stubborn and it's the Blood God's nature to never refuse the prospect of combat. 

 

And thier homes are interrupted.  Slaneesh isn't spending time being fawned over by his/her/its handmaidens, as they are destroyed.  Etc.

 

Their personal sanctums get REKT.

 

This isn't a frontier battle for some vague power or glory.  This is thier perosnal domians.

 

 

 

The Ruinous Powers aren't scared (they can't feel fear at all), but they're annoyed with Tzeentch. One of his puppets put this rock in their otherwise liquid world, and it refuses to wear down. So, they've given up trying to kill or turn him, and now they just lead him in circles. 

 

Well the pasage explicitly states they are afriad.  All but a very few of the most powerful are afraid.  I'll see if I can C&P the passage.

 

Edit: Seems I misrememebred.  It only says that only the most Crazed of Khornes followers now seek him out.  Could have sworn it said they retreated in fear of him.

 

 

 

It's quite clearly a stalemate when neither side can make any kind of final victory. Draigo can't win (he can't escape due to the curse, and the False Gods won't let him go anyway), but the Ruinous Powers can't end him until Emps is dead (as that is where his power comes from). 

 

It's not about a final victory.  It's about continual ruin and destruction of the Chaos Powers personal domains.  And they can do *nothing* to stop Draigo doing this for eternity.

 

That's a pure win.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Except there are the places those powers reside in.  Their homes.  Like the Plague Garden and T's city.

 

Which got burned down and smashed up.

 

Figuratively. Because Chaos is eternal and empheral, and nothing is permanent. Hence, it's all futile, because they just grow back. 

And thier homes are interrupted.  Slaneesh isn't spending time being fawned over by his/her/its handmaidens, as they are destroyed.  Etc.

 

Their personal sanctums get REKT.

 

This isn't a frontier battle for some vague power or glory.  This is thier perosnal domians.

 

Because they let him in, trying to tempt or break him. Remember, this is the warp. It's all metaphor and emotion, its not real like 'over there is Khorne's house, and there is Nurgle Garden' etc. They're ideas, if you want to think of it that way. Draigo rejected and destroyed the ideas, but they're eternal and came back anyway. 

Well the pasage explicitly states they are afriad.  All but a very few of the most powerful are afraid.  I'll see if I can C&P the passage.

 

Edit: Seems I misrememebred.  It only says that only the most Crazed of Khornes followers now seek him out.  Could have sworn it said they retreated in fear of him.

 

Yeah. Hence, they're not scared, they're just frustrated no one can kill or break him. Khorne keeps trying because well, he's Khorne, and he wants skulls. Even as Draigo slays his champions, Khorne just dreams up more and feeds off the slaughter. 

It's not about a final victory.  It's about continual ruin and destruction of the Chaos Powers personal domains.  And they can do *nothing* to stop Draigo doing this for eternity.

 

That's a pure win.

 

But it's not continual. Draigo did it once, when the Ruinous Powers were foolish enough to try and turn/kill him. Instead, he rejected their offers and threats, and rekt them. Henceforth, they shut him out of their personal domains, and now he roams the wastelands between. Tzeentch occasionally portals him back to reality to help out his Chapter, and then whisks him away at battle's end.  

[thade]

 

Humanity didn't win anything. The Ruinous Powers are making good progress to Terra with their pawn, and soon the Anethema will be dead. Once Emps is gone, the Grey Knights lose their source of power, and besides their mundane and non-Emps defences/weapons, are pretty screwed. Not to mention humanity is doomed to extinction. 

Please report to Deck 13 Section C for "debriefing."

 

The Immortal Emperor will see us through this dark time. This dark time being "the time that some of us take Draigo semi-seriously."

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Please report to Deck 13 Section C for "debriefing."

 

It's cool. I already spoke with the Prognosticars. Their analysis is 'we should probably turn on Malcador's teleporter again, wait another century for things to die down, then come back'. Dunno what we're gonna do with Deimos though...probably move most of it onto Titan. 

 

The Immortal Emperor will see us through this dark time. This dark time being "the time that some of us take Draigo semi-seriously."

 

 

Well, I'm glad we're no longer notorious for endless haterade threads on the topic. Purifiers did a good job with that cleanup ;)

[thade]

I'm really glad this topic came up, but I admit I'm super super picky about what fiction I ingest; A. D-B. sets so high a bar, especially for licensed works, that I have a hard time stepping into other works. I wish he'd do another GK novel. Or an Inquisition novel. Or that Sisters novel he mused on interest in doing.

 

Not to play the part of drooling fanboy here, but his prose and setup are just so good.

[Gentlemanloser]

Just as long as Grimnar isn't lopping of GK heads willy nilly.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Just as long as Grimnar isn't lopping of GK heads willy nilly.

 

GML, do your homework. I expect that book report on Monday ;)

[Helias_Tancred]

I'm nothing close to a GK fluff guru but I really enjoyed the GK audio drama Incorruptible. 42 minute long story.

[Gentlemanloser]

That the latest one with them on a Hulk?

 

All I dislike about that is the crappy lore breaking tease to sell the story.

 

It's akin to releasing;

 

"The Emperor Sits on his Golden Throne.  Was he actually a cross dressing Dark Elder in disguise under the effects of Polymorphine??"  Buy this book to find out (he isn't and never was!)."

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Well it was a pretty successful troll on their part. I got supermad and threatened to quit the hobby. 

 

But then it turned out to be nothing :P

 

The story is actually pretty good. If they hadn't framed it as 'omg massive controversy!1!!' it wouldn't be tainted by that. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Totally. :)