Jolemai Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 With a number of units and options from Forgeworld's various Imperial Armour books available for the Blood Angels to use the aim here is to 1) share and impart our collective knowledge to our fellow Captains and 2) promote discussion on use and synergies regarding the lesser-known potential boons to our forces. I want this thread to remain in flux and will happily edit the first post as people reply with their own ideas so we can get the optimal use out of each unit. A link to other similar reviews can be found from post #6 on the Blood Angels resources thread Flyers and Skimmers Below are six BA-specific Flyers and Skimmer options from Forgeworld. Alternatively, one could use the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing dataslate; a review of which can be found here.DisclaimerOur new Codex resulted in the Relic of the Armoury rule (described below) becoming void. Whist it has been included as written for the purpose of completion, a “get you by” work around has been found here whereby you can use a Chaplain instead. Fighter Aces This deserves it's own section. Originally found in Death from the Skies these rules have since been updated in Shield of Baal: Leviathan and as the most recent publication, these are the ones that should be used. Also, the ones in SoB:Leviathan are cheaper and more up to date rules-wise. In any mission that doesn't have the Fight Ace special rule to it, you can upgrade any of your Flyers to receive one for the price of seven melta bombs. Then you roll a D6 and consult the following BA table:1-2: Angel of Vengeance - Flyer has BS +1 3-4: Grace of Angels - Pivot up to 180 instead of 90 degrees prior to movement 5-6: Wraith of Sanguinius - One use only. Declare use at the start of your turn and the Fighter Ace and anything of faction BA within 12" has preferred enemy Of these, every BA Flyer can benefit from +1 BS and the extra 90 degree pivot means you don't have to move in a diamond the whole game. Wraith of Sanguinius is arguably better on a transport to maximise the potential of preferred enemy. In short they are potentially worth getting but your Flyer is already becoming quite expensive... Caestus Assault Ram AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 144 of Imperial Armour volume two Second Edition (IAv2SE). Note that the rules on page 30 of Imperial Armour Aeronautica (IA:An) are essentially the same bar an obvious note about its Supersonic ruling. The model can be found here. Conversion-wise, it is feasible to build one out of two Stormfang/Stormwolves, but I have yet to see such an attempt.Rules • AV 13/13/11, HP 3, Fast Attack slot• Flyer, Hover, Tank (see below), Transport capacity: 10• Deep Strike, Assault Vehicle, Caestus Ram [roll 2D6 and add the highest for ram attacks, +1 on damage table, 5+ save against hits to the front armour], Misericorde [ignore Bulky rules], Supersonic• Extra Armour, hull-mounted twin-linked Magna Melta [18”, STR 8, AP 1, Heavy 1, 5” blast, Melta], wing-mounted Firefury Missile Launcher [36”, STR 6, AP 4, Heavy 4, twin-linked, 3” blast, one use]• Options include Teleport Homer, Frag Assault Launchers, Armoured Ceramite UseAs the only AV13 Flyer currently available to us this vehicle is unique in that it can be used more aggressively than conventional our Flyers. Such aggression is used to bring the Magna Melta into range but also for two other purposes: ramming and delivery. With the current seventh edition ruleset a ram will net you a single STR 8 attack and with the bonuses spoilered above, you may even explode your target – which is unique for a ram. In return, you will not be able to fire your weapons (Snap Shots and Blasts don’t mix), nor will you be permitted to disembark any models onboard. Whilst this is fun, like all rams it should be considered plan B at best.As for delivery, with the Misericorde it can transport ten models no matter the armour, however, there’s no mention of whether or not it can carry jump troops so it would be better to lie on the side of nay for now. Delivering ten Terminators or any of our assault units works in the same manner as our Stormravens do, albeit with a safer delivery - which you do pay more for but this is balanced by the Caestus being an FA choice.Finally, this Flyer lends itself very well to the Legacy of Glory: Battle of Keylek (as mentioned here). Ignore Cover, Blast, Melta weaponry are extremely potent after all. Fire Raptor Gunship Fire Raptor Gunship by Aubéron AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 139 of IAv2SE. Note that there is an errata for IAv2SE that allows Blood Angels to take them and for the Fire Raptor to swap its heavy bolters for independent, turret-mounted twin-linked autocannons. The model can be found here. Conversions are possible from a Stormraven using a third party conversion kit…Rules • AV 12/12/12, HP 4, Heavy Support slot• Flyer, Hover, Deep Strike, Power of the Machine Spirit• Strafing Run, Independent Turret Fire (Don’t count towards maximum number of shots, may selected different targets), Relic of the Armoury (requires a Reclusiarch [see disclaimer above] if you want 2+ with this rule in your CAD or 1+ if Blood Angels are the Allied Detachment)• One hull-mounted twin-linked Avenger Bolt Cannon (36”, STR 6, AP 3, Heavy 7), two turret-mounted twin-linked Quad Heavy Bolters (36”, STR 5, AP 4, Heavy 6 twin-linked)/twin-linked Autocannon, four wing-mounted Stormstrike Missiles (72”, STR 8, AP 2, Heavy 1, Concussive), Extra Armour UseThis is the Space Marine’s out and out gunship and the best bit, with Independent Turret Fire and PotMS, you can engage up to four units a turn which is simply phenomenal. Of the two options, the quad heavy bolters (six twin linked shots!) are probably the best choice but, if you are going to face a Flyer heavy force then that is where the autocannon comes to the fore. Other than that, the avenger bolt cannon is an MEQ killer and the stormstrike missiles should be used in the same manner as our Stormravens. It also benefits from the Battle of Sarosh Legacy of Glory which adds +1 to its Jink save.Finally, with Hover, it can begin the game on a Skyshield instead of being in reserves – a tactic which can be used to bring its weapons to bear earlier and pin a large number of unit place from the get-go. Javelin Attack Speeder Lascannon Javelin by marine7312000 AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 154 of IAv2SE. The model can be found here (with lascannons) or here (with missile launchers. A Typhoon could stand in as the cyclone version or the lascannon version with a bit of converting.Rules • AV 11/11/10, HP 2, Fast Attack slot• Skimmer, Fast, Deep Strike, Outflank, Relic of the Armoury (requires a Reclusiarch [see disclaimer above] if you want 2+ with this rule in your CAD or 1+ if Blood Angels are the Allied Detachment)• Heavy Bolter (upgradeable to Heavy Flamer/Multi Melta), Cyclone Missile Launcher (upgradeable to a twin-linked Lascannon)• Options include a Searchlight, up to two Hunter Killer Missiles UseLet me introduce you to the Land Speeder’s long lost big brother. One extra point of armour makes it more durable and immune to most small arms fire, but it’s still likely to fall over to mid strength weaponry like any Land Speeder. However, its two strengths lie in its weaponry and its ability to Outflank.The base layout is a heavy bolter and cyclone missile launcher, which is an improvement on the dual heavy bolter build that a regular Land Speeder has (and for just 15 points more). With Outflank, you get a different option than Deep Strike to achieve the same goal: to pop up somewhere and annihilate some troops or shoot a vehicle in the rear. Alternatively, we can upgrade the heavy bolter to a multi melta and the cyclones to a twin-linked lascannon giving us some seriously fast anti-tank. It can also take up to two hunter killer missiles which are not only unique for us but add to this AV killing potential. This is also cheaper than a “tri-las” Predator, than two Attack Bikes, “Meltacide” and the best bit; it’s a Fast Attack slot Land Speeder Tempest AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 154 of IAv2SE. Note that the rules on page 37 of IA:An are out of date and should not be used. The model can be found here. Conversions are possible from a stock Land Speeder by enclosing the cockpit and mounting the missile systems on the wings. Forgeworld’s Imperial Navy section might have some suitable options to work with.Rules • AV 11/10/10, HP 2, Fast Attack Slot, Squadron of 1-3• Skimmer, Fast, Deep Strike, Afterburner (Use at start of turn to become a zooming flyer that turn. Weapons cannot be fired)• One nose-mounted Assault Cannon, one fuselage-mounted twin-linked Missile Launcher• Armoured Cockpit (ignore Crew Shaken/Stunned on a 4+), Extra Armour UseMore expensive than a Javelin and can come in squadrons, but, why should you have one/some of these over the regular Land Speeder? The Tempest has two roles: transport popping and Objective claiming.An armament of an assault cannon and twin-linked missile launcher yields five shots that can strip HPs in an instant or, slaughter xenos hoards/monsters reliably. If you compare it to a regular Dreadnought with the same armament, it is 40 points cheaper, has a re-roll to hit on the missile launcher, is more mobile and thus flexible and can come in multiples all for the cost of durability (Jink rolls aside that is). Three of these gives you fifteen shots for 270 points. Yes three dual heavy bolter Land Speeders will give you three more shots for 90 points less but with these being higher strength you have a better spread of targets and arguably, can cause more wounds to similar targets.The most interesting rule is the Afterburner to which I foresee two uses: either use it on the first turn/when you arrive from Deep Strike/Reserves to put pressure on an opponent or to get in their Deployment zone. Alternatively, to be used mid-game to redeploy in a similar manner to how Swooping Hawks can use Skyleap. Either way, this redeploy/speed is unique to us and gives us yet another approach to winning the game.In summary, if you like Land Speeders then you will find a use for these. If not, then you’ll probably be using something else anyway. Storm Eagle Assault Gunship DisclaimerDespite being originally not available for us, FW have since changed their mind and have promised to add us to the Chapters who have this at their disposal with the next update/FAQ. In the meantime, there is this which gives us access. It should also be noted that the Storm Eagle Assault Gunship – Roc Pattern on page 138 of IAv2SE remains unavailable to us.AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 137 of IAv2SE or page 28 of IA:An. The model can be found here. Conversions are possible from a stock Stormraven Gunship by simply swapping the weapons, moving the/adding more wings and maybe by using Chaperhouse Studio’s extension kit.Rules • AV 12/12/12, HP 4, Heavy Support• Flyer, Hover, Transport capacity 20, four access points• Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit, Deep Strike, Armoured Ceramite• Twin-linked heavy bolter (exchangeable to a twin-linked multi melta or single typhoon missile launcher), vengeance launcher (48”, STR 5, AP 4, Heavy 2, 5” Blast)• Options to purchase four hellstrike missiles (72”, STR 8, AP 3, Ordnance 1) or two twin-linked lascannons, extra armour and a searchlight UseAt first glance this looks like a more expensive, larger Stormraven, but this is not entirely accurate. The Stormeagle is primarily a transport first, gunship second (whereas a Stormraven is arguably the other way around and a Fireraptor is a pure gunship), and this is affirmed by the anti-personnel weaponry at its disposal. With a capacity of twenty, this allows us to field a full squad of Death Company on foot or a ten man squad of Terminators, something which is very unique to us, with the added bonus of being able to charge from it. For the moment, there are no rules for jump infantry so best avoid placing them inside for now.With Hover, it can begin the game on a Skyshield instead of being in reserves – a tactic which can be used to launch an assault early on or to bring its weapons to bear earlier. It also benefits from the Battle of Sarosh Legacy of Glory which adds +1 to its Jink save.Of course, you can equip the Stormeagle with anti-tank weaponry such as the twin-linked multi melta and two twin-linked lascanons, but there are better choices for this role. Unless necessary, best stick to something that can synergise with the vengeance launcher and/or have something that can target a separate unit successfully. Finally, with the current 7th edition ruleset, I would avoid taking the hellstrike missiles as firing one will cause the rest of your shooting to be snap shots only… Xiphon pattern Interceptor AvailabilityThe rules for this are currently experimental and a PDF can be downloaded from the FW website. The model is available here. As far as conversions go, one could feasibly be achieved starting from a Ravenwing Nephillim. Rules • AV 11/11/11, HP 2, Fast Attack• Flyer, Deep Strike (counts as moving 18", unable to Evade or go Flat Out that turn), Supersonic, Agile (+1 to Jink saves)• Armoured Ceramite (Melta doesn't get +D6 to penetrate), two twin-linked lascannons, Xiphon rotary missile launcher (60", STR 8, AP 2, Heavy 2, Cluster Warhead [roll D3 times on the vehicle damage table, choosing the highest], Terminal Tracking [re-roll successful Jink and Cover saves])• Options to purchase a Chaff Launcher (single use, 4++ against missile damage), Armoured Cockpit (ignore Crew Shaken/Stunned on a 4+) UseSo, this is the closest we will get to using a Stormtalon Gunship outside of the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing dataslate or Allies. At almost twice the price as a Stormtalon, we get an out and out dogfighter that is primarily used for Flyer and Vehicle hunting. Given its choice of weapons, any Flyer should perish, as should the majority of transports/light vehicles. It is also a decent choice against Xenos vehicles as they rely on cover (via Jink) a little more than we do. As a FA choice it gives us another option towards Flyer spam and could potentially add a lot to a Flesh Tearers Strike Force Detachment. The "new" restrictions on Deep Strike are interesting (and will likely filter through to the other FW Flyers in due course), but other than the chance of a mishap, don't detract from the possibility of arriving somewhere unexpected for your opponent. Suitable Legacy of Glory upgrades include War of Murder (for Monster Hunter), Icon of Glory (+1 BS) or even Istvaan V Dropsite Massacre for Deep Strike trolling. Of the two upgrades, the Armoured Cockpit could be worth the expense but this Flyer isn't cheap to begin with... Finally, as the rules are experimental, all of this entry is subject to change! Imperial Navy The following can be taken as a Lord of War choice for a Blood Angel’s force. I’ve included them here instead of the Super Heavy review as they are, first and foremost, Flyers. Fighter Aces This deserves it's own section. Originally found in Death from the Skies these rules have since been updated in Shield of Baal: Leviathan and as the most recent publication, these are the ones that should be used. Also, the ones in SoB:Leviathan are cheaper and more up to date rules-wise. In any mission that doesn't have the Fight Ace special rule to it, you can upgrade any of your Flyers to receive one for the price of seven melta bombs. Then you roll a D6 and consult the following Astra Millitarum table (see BA-centric FAQ thread):1-2: Covert Deployment - Arrive from any table edge 3-4: Defensive Flyer - Add +1 to its front Armour Value 5-6: Inspiring Presense - Anything friendly with Faction Astra Millitarum (or Millitarum Tempestus) within 12" becomes Fearless Of these, both Marauders can benefit from +1 to its front facing and the bomber especially will love the ability to arrive from any table edge. The final one is only of use should you ally with the Astra Millitarum/Millitarum Tempestus. Marauder Bomber AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 47 of Imperial Armour Apocalypse (IA:A). Whilst they can also be found on page 17 of Warzone Pandorax (currently out of production) as these rules are significantly different and shouldn't be used. Also, those found on page 17 of IA:An are similarly out of date and thus, obsolete. The model can be found here and I’ve yet to see a conversion or scratch build for them.Rules • Super-heavy Flyer, LoW slot• BS 3, AV 11/11/10, HP 9• One twin-linked Lascannon, two twin-linked heavy bolters, four heavy bomb clusters (SR 6, AP 4, Apocalyptic Barrage 8, Bomb, One use) – which can be exchanged for two hellstorm bombs (STR 7, AP 3, Hellstorm [one bomb per run, place the narrow end of the Hellstorm template at the impact point and the wide end close to the final position], Bomb, One use)• Usual Forgeworld upgrades for Flyers UseSo far, our Lord of War choices consist of our Chapter Masters, a Super-heavy vehicle or a Titan. The Bomber brings a lot of diversity to our army. It’s the cheapest Super-heavy Flyer available to us, it’s the only bomb dropping model available (outside of allying with the Dark Angels) and has an entirely different role to our other Flyers. Granted it has a worse BS but it is far, far more durable especially as it is a Super-heavy. Note that unlike our smaller Flyers, it cannot Jink, nor can it start on a Skyshield as it lacks Hover mode.A Bomb is dropped in the Movement phase by placing the hole of the template on a model you passed over. Once scatter is resolved, things under the template are resolved as per the Barrage rules. As the heavy bomb cluster uses the Apocalyptic Barrage template (the cloverleaf one) you’re going to wound a fair bit and better still, you roll eight dice to see where each strike lands. The potential here is absolutely nuts: hoards beware. As you have four, you have enough ammunition to do this each turn of the game! Alternatively, the two Hellstorm bombs are MEQ killers and whilst the potential is there, getting it right is a fine art. Anti-personnel has never really been a problem for us but when you get it right, wow. Then in the ensuring shooting phase, you can fire your remaining three weapons at a different target be it a Flyer or a ground target without penalty.Of the FW upgrades, the infra-red targeting and illum flares are only suited to Apocalypse, whilst the armoured cockpit upgrade is no obsolete. Distinctive paintscheme/markings may have a use (once per game re-roll for a morale test on a friendly unit within 12”) but the one I’d likely purchase is flare/chaff launchers which is single use, but gives a 4++ against missile damage – but only if I had the spare points. Marauder Destroyer AvailabilityThe rules are found on page 48 of IA:A. Whilst they can also be found on page 18 of IA:An there is a slight amendment to the rules for their bombs so it would be best to use the most recent publication. The model can be found here, there is a slight amendment to the rules for their bombs so it would be best to use the most recent publication. The model can be found here and I have yet to see a conversion of scratch build for them.Rules • Super-heavy Flyer, LoW slot• BS 3, AV 11/11/10, HP 9• Strafing Run• Three twin-linked autocannons, one twin-linked heavy bolter, one twin-linked assault cannon and three heavy bomb clusters (SR 6, AP 4, Apocalyptic Barrage 8, Bomb, One use)• Normal FW upgrades and the option to purchase eight hellstrike missiles (72”, STR 8, AP 3, Ordnance 1) UseThe Destroyer is the flip side to the Bomber. For an increase in points and one less heavy bolter, one less lascannon and one less bomb (+ options), you gain three autocannons, an assault cannon and the option to take right hellstrike missiles. That’s fifteen weapons, all of which can be targeted at different targets and without penalty from firing the hellstrike missiles (as Super-heavies care not for Ordnance). Granted it has a worse BS that our current Flyer choices but this is offset by Strafing Run and it is still far, far more durable especially as it is a Super-heavy.This thing still has the potential to do just as much carnage as the Bomber but where the Bomber requires finesse to use, the Destroyer is more the “point a click” type. This will outgun any other LoW choice for us bar a Fellblade and at two thirds of the price.Of the FW upgrades, the infra-red targeting and illum flares are only suited to Apocalypse, whilst the armoured cockpit upgrade is no obsolete. Distinctive paintscheme/markings may have a use (once per game re-roll for a morale test on a friendly unit within 12”) but the one I’d likely purchase is flare/chaff launchers which is single use, but gives a 4++ against missile damage – but only if I had the spare points. Finally, unlike our smaller Flyers, it cannot Jink, nor can it start on a Skyshield as it lacks Hover mode. Summary So there you have it, eight Flyers to unleash on your unsuspecting foes - each of which has at least a small role to play in our army. Two Skimmers with unique roles and abilities, two varying styles of transport, a gunship, an interceptor, and two flying behemoths - all of which can add to our forces and in the right circumstances, cause carnage.Once again, please discuss the above or let me know of any errors of things to add to this post. Alternatively have you used these? Post your reports below! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ran out of likes; very well put together! I was thrown off by the Slots of a few of them (Caestus is HS and Storm Eagle is FA in 30k) but, other than that, very direct and to the point. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3935081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 man think of the true aerial superiority force we could build with all these birds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3935558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 LOVE the Fire Raptor, though I have a soft spot for the Caestus too Thanks for this Jol, as somebody who doesn't own IA its good to get a decent lowdown. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3935686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Urgh, noticed some typos :( will update it when I'm next at a PC. Landrick, the potential is there for seven Flyers in a single BSF/CAD before adding in formations, etc. Whilst impressive, I'd be hesitant to do it without some reserve manipulation, A Skyshield and a durable ground force! Start on the board with a Damocles, and a Stormeagle/Stormraven full of cargo? Hehe :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3935711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Great write up. The ram can hold jump troops, normally with a model with jp counts as bulky but the ram doesn't care about model size. I am converting mine to carry my death co, just waiting on FW doors to arrive. I have had a lot succes running the ram, before they updated in 40k, it took a small nerf not being able to start on board ( not counting sky sheild) . Aggressive play style list a ram is good choice, that 5'' blast melta is deadly. Where you playing on adding fighter ace rules from lavitin? For 7 meltabombs any flier can be upgraded to a ace and with roll on d6 get a perk, not 100% usefully and costly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3935921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Good call, I'll add them in next week. The reason I said to err in the side of caution regarding jump troops is that it doesn't specifically say so like a Storm raven does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3935931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah I see your point on that one, it can fall into a gray area and some times a rule lawyer pops up and try's to spend more time arguing than playing. Have you use the Fire raptor much? I am planning on picking 2 up for 30k Alpha legion and was looking to see how they play in 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3936248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Jol just saying I don't think the Fire raptor has the option to take the autocannon battery if the PDF is out of date. I may just be having a massive brain failure and have missed something obvious but the Fire Raptor only has the quad maounted heavy bolter thingies in my IA2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3936283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 The experimental rules are out of date, yes. It was FAQ'd back into the main book and I will edit in a link for it. Cheers :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3936296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The Caestus with Battle of Keylek...only played this in three games then the new dex came, but believe me it handled the field like a God. The most awesome single unit I have played, even considering tooled-up jump DC. Am mulling over a new list with the caestus, maybe even with sanguinary guard inside. But more likely not, as the main raison d' etre is its ability to swat whole units of eldar hornets off the table with one turn of shooting. Having a sicaran to chew up WS whilst the caestus struts around slapping hornets...maybe that is an answer to the new top-tier eldar armies? Seriously. And it isn't a relic. The fire raptor is awesome but a wise oppo keeps his things in cover. Ah, that affects anything though doesn't it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3936809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 A good over view. Yes there are a few typos but this happens in everything, we all know what you are saying. Like the Review on the Marauder Destroyer as i'm still considering running one, I am wondering however that if I do take one does it still share the super heavy rules for destroyed results only losing D3 hull points and since its a Super heavy would it still ignore all results other than destroyed on the dammage table? I only ask as super heavy flyers in the main rule book are meant to be treated like regular flyers and i have never field one much like most people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3949853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 A good over view. Yes there are a few typos but this happens in everything, we all know what you are saying. Like the Review on the Marauder Destroyer as i'm still considering running one, I am wondering however that if I do take one does it still share the super heavy rules for destroyed results only losing D3 hull points and since its a Super heavy would it still ignore all results other than destroyed on the dammage table? I only ask as super heavy flyers in the main rule book are meant to be treated like regular flyers and i have never field one much like most people. Yeah, I'm still to fix the typos on this one A Marauder follows the rules for a Super Heavy in addition the the Flyer rules. So yes it uses the Super Heavy damage table, uses the Super Heavy rules for shooting, can't Jink, etc, but moves like a Flyer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3949867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 As long as my 500 point with missiles flyer can not be shot down with a single result I'm happy. I do want to check however, missiles, can each be fired at a different target in the same turn as they are as it stands 1 use only each. Same with the autocannons as you have 3 Twin Linked so does that mean they all need to fire at the same target if there is 3 of them due to the Super Heavy rules? (Kind of have a vision on my mind of a beautiful moment when my flyer comes on and pops 4 or 5 Dark Eldar transports in 1 round of shooting. ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3949934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think multiple Fire Raptors would be best suited to something like that. 3 FR's can hit 12 targets a turn for only ~690 points. Then again, this isn't 30k so you're limited to 1 without taking more of the requisite unit(s) to unlock more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3949940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 As long as my 500 point with missiles flyer can not be shot down with a single result I'm happy. I do want to check however, missiles, can each be fired at a different target in the same turn as they are as it stands 1 use only each. Same with the autocannons as you have 3 Twin Linked so does that mean they all need to fire at the same target if there is 3 of them due to the Super Heavy rules? (Kind of have a vision on my mind of a beautiful moment when my flyer comes on and pops 4 or 5 Dark Eldar transports in 1 round of shooting. ) The only way it will get taken down in one turn is if something can deal 9 HP of damage :) No need to worry about losing weapons, vector locks, etc, etc. They are eight separate missiles so yes, they can go at individual targets as per the Super Heavy rules. As a reference, a Stormraven has four stormstrike missiles and it is completely legal to use Power of the Machine Spirit to send one towards a different target. Despite the autocannons being akin to hurricane bolters, there are no rules regarding them firing together. By saying "three twin-linked autocannons" it is, in my opinoin, simply three different weapons and thus they can fire separately as per the Super Heavy rules. For what it's worth, FW are good at saying what weapons do what (for example, the Deredeo's Anvillus pattern autocannons are said to be both arms firing as one weapon) so I think we are safe to assume the above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3949943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Is the ram points different in IA2 from the HH books? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3950933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 OP updated and errors corrected. Added info on BA and Imperial Navy Fighter Aces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3954053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Updated to include the new Xiphon pattern Interceptor and I've added the correct faction for the Marauder Fighter Aces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3989098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 It's unfortunate the Xiphon is so damn expensive. It has great rules but at 205 pts its way too expensive for a 2 HP, AV11 flyer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3989327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Agreed, you can get a bare-bones Storm Raven for less than that which is arguably better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3989345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Agreed, you can get a bare-bones Storm Raven for less than that which is arguably better. Yep, agreed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3989347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 But it is soooooo cool looking!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3989987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 But it is soooooo cool looking!!!! You can always run it as a counts-as Storm Talon (in a Storming formation of course as that is the only way we can run the @#£%& thing :( ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-3990143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Very nice write up, the Assault Ram is a personal favorite (I have three) of mine along with the Tempests, more for the aesthetics than anything. Although one thing you left out from the Tempest is that it is actually armed with a Twin Linked Missile Launcher and FLAKK missiles, this is pretty huge as it allows the speeder to actually play a limited anti air role. Paired with its extremely high maneuverability, the Flakk missile launcher can be very useful as hitting enemy flyers in weaker spots. Also with the Assault Ram and Jump Troops, I am pretty sure that there is a general rule that Jump Pack infantry cannot be transport unless specifically stated on the transport and when they can they count as Bulky, so while the Ram ignores the Bulky aspect it doesn't specifically state that you can transport Jump. Otherwise you could transport Vanguard Assault Troops in Landraiders or even Rhinos after combat squadding them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302753-imperial-armour-discussion-flyers-and-skimmers/#findComment-4070532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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