Candleshoes Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Hello Sons of the Lion, I was reading a geneseed thread from an archived old forum, when I saw the following line: "The Dark Angles were rumored to be black with their Patriarch "Lion El Johnson" (When the first rule book – Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader – first came out) and then went to American Indian description..." I have always been a fan of the Unforgiven, and own most of the original fluff works... but I must confess I couldn't think for the life of me where this skin tone "rumor" might have come from in official fluff. If it does exist, it's another interesting patch on the 1st Legion's heritage quilt. Would any of the longbeards have some insight into this, or is this just a case of someone throwing out something they "thought" they read, but has no actual basis? *** The conversation thread was on skin tones and geneseed - so odds are he didn't mistake it for armour *** Interested to hear your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 you sure they werent talking about armor color? Not implausible tho... Heavily retconned by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydroponica Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I thought the Primarchs were made in the Emperors image, and then the Astartes were made from the Geneseed's of the Primarchs... The Dark Angel's armor was Black in the beginning though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah. Pretty sure it was the armor and Salamanders were black Skin tone. Might have been Native American but as said so many different variations over the years now who knows what they could have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Never heard of the Lion being black, he's always been pale with a mane of blonde hair (though A D-B did reference him having dark hair once). Calibanites were never suggested to be Native American, that was the group of terminators from the Deathwing short story, who were from a long time after the Heresy so obviously not Calibanite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The Dark Angels' armor was black. The comment is only about that, as the ethnicity of the Dark Angels is not mentioned anywhere in the Rogue Trader book. There could be more information about the Dark Angels background in later Rogue Trade era supplements, but if there was then it would definitely have been referenced in any number of wikis. In the Rogue Trader rulebook, the Dark Angels' armor color is mentioned (and shown), as is Lion El' Johnson, but little more than that. Later on, the Lion is mentioned (and portrayed in art) as having a mane of blonde hair. Thsoe with this recessive genetic trait are very prone to having other recessive traits, like light eyes and skin tone (though, as the Primarchs were created, they could have any combination of genetic traits). Post-destruction of Caliban, the Dark Angels recruit from numberous worlds, so the physical appearance of any Dark Angels will run the gamut of variety...not that it wouldn't also be that way prior to the destruction of Caliban, as Caliban has never been noted to not be multi-ethnic. That would obviosuly apply to the original Terran Dark Angels too, so paint Dark Angels skin tones however you want to. The "Deathwing" story is not about Caliban, but about one of the many Dark Angels recruiting worlds; that one so happening to have been given a Native American theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I never saw any mention to skin tones outside the present incarnation of fluff that refers to having genetic variety from recruiting from many different worlds. Pre-heresy it's a mistery but all points to caucasian traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 ¨The original style for Dark Angels was to be more native american, hence all the feathers on veters and terminator armors etc. However they were soon transferred more of the Teutonic order style, which monaistic warrior monks suited better the high gothic image of 40k. Thus native american had darker skin tone but only true black skin color of the astartes is found on slamanders. Geneseed can bleach skin or it can make white skin ebony black like in Salamanders case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Maybe they confused Lionel Johnson with Lionel Richie? It's a big Imperium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Games Workshop believes very strongly in segregation and white supremecy. Don't belive me? Look at all the codeces since rogue trader. What are the color of the space marines? Look at imperial guard. Name the single death world that isn't represented by 100% white faces. Catachans should be your only answer. Only 2 chapters have ever been represented with non-European skin tone - Salamanders who are entirely black (segregated) and Dark Angels who had a Native American theme (which was retconned in favor of a knight templar theme). Eldar? White. Dark Eldar? White. Tau? Asian. Chaos? White. Sisters of Battle? White. Tyranids? Lavender (those racists bastards). Seriously though, of all the human(ish) races, any faction that isn't white is segregated into it's own unit. Salamanders, Tallern, Rough Riders (Mongolian), White Scars, etc. Look through B&C. How many white models do you see? For the record, my IG had female officers and were multi-cultural. My DA all wear helmets so it doesn't matter. Well, did. My ravenwing have a few without helmets now, but they aren't painted yet. This is just food for thought. Hopefully it opens some eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's Euro-centric because its where most of the developers/original gamers come from. Racism was never intended, imo, and as the way of things, this has stuck. Its up to gamers/painters to change this with their own models EDIT: for the record, I suck at painting skin tone. So I use helmets. But I am experimenting with more colours than caucasian for my skin tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's Euro-centric because its where most of the developers/original gamers come from. Racism was never intended, imo, and as the way of things, this has stuck. Its up to gamers/painters to change this with their own models As stated, the DA used to have a heavy Native American theme. That dried up pretty fast. Sad, since it could have been the source of a lot of literature. Still, I can understand space marine colors being effected by geneseed, by why exactly are the thousands of IG on the cover of the IG codex all white? How about the last 3 codices? Maybe it's just me. I've been exposed to the US military where, not only is color not an issue, we have a large percentage of people that aren't even US citizens serving. Point is, I see a lot of the SS in 40k lore. More than I would like honestly. I try to counter it by adding diversity to my own models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I liked the Native American theme and I believe it popped up in the book AoD during the aspirant trials. We still have yet to see proto dark angels, but I can imagine them to carry out the theme of Arthurian knights (also French and English ancestry - so pale skin again). I'm sure the black thing was a reference to their armor color and not skin color - though I could care less if you want to paint your marines purple, orange, or lavender. I hope the Native American theme comes back though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I see a lot of real world references going around... cease and desist for the thread to live. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The legions are based on periods in history or legend Ultras are Roman Space Wolf Norse of the saga legend times Dark Angels have biblical references our leaders are named after Angels Templars - knights templar Scars - ghengis khan Etc The guard have their roots in world war 1 / 2 commissars are as we know Russian from ww2 stories One of the main men John Blanche has his art rooted in the tales of h p Lovecraft and gothic. With a global brand as it is now people tend to think of a big global corporation but the majority of this stuff was dreamt up and developed by a small group of middle class gaming/art enthusiasts in Nottingham that liked playing D&D 20 + years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Belial Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I've always painted my Unforgiven with a multi-cultural bent to illustrate the various worlds. Azrael is Hispanic in my force and Naaman's successor is African and the pale faces amongst them have various hair colors as well. Painting wise, I like the Hispanic tones since I use the Browns in the ranges and not the flesh tones. Africans are also easier as well for the same reason though I use the dark flesh tone as a highlight. The Caucasian tones seem to me the trickiest to pull off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Killmer Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I would not interpret too much into the whole thing. The more or most likely less consistent background that was created over the various versions of the 40k, Space Marine and other games and or other minor releases of games like where Dark Angels (like release of the first terminator boxes) were refered to - created a patchwork picture of the chapter that would not endure any comparison to its "original" on earth. Just look on the models of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition. The heads of the metal miniatures are all short haired soldier types that look very much alike which is normal if you see them as something very close to clones ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiffinberg Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 All my DA successor chapter have helmets except for the librarian, I might just paint his face grey to avoid issue :PIn all seriousness: its 2015, paint your minis whatever skin tone you like, while the gene seed plays a major role we are free to interpret where the chapters draw their recruits from and what ethnicity they may be :)In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium there is no racism, only xenophobia (I'm watching you eldar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunk Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Here's the only bit of unarmoured Dark Angel artwork from the 1st edition rulebook (to my knowledge). Please excuse the gap on the centre-left, it's spread over two pages. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/Bob_Hunk/Miniatures%20-%20Pre-Heresy/DA_zps61168433.jpg As you can see they look fairly white, so I'd suggest the old forum post was referring to their armour colour, which did indeed start out as black. Note that this is even before the Native American theme, which didn't come along until about 3 years later. Reading the accompanying text, it's funny to see how things change. Founded by Lyyn Elgonsen? That certainly makes the reference a bit more subtle. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 And would make the sacred thing passed down the Lyyn Helm and the Lyyn blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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