Meatcaber Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hi all Had a look through the BA resource thread but it's mostly 6Ed stuff and nothing specifically about Assault squads in Rhino's (unless I missed it). I am looking to try out a couple of these units in a few weeks when I start playing again (just returned after a 2 year break), just sorting all my Warhammer stuff out just now. A few guys at my new job are into Warhammer, don't think they play as such but are more just 'interested' in it, lol Rhino's being Fast and Free seems too good not to try. Loading 5 guys with 2 special weapons which can both fire from the 'fire points' is where my thoughts are at. With plasma they can move - not sure how far exactly as I am still waiting for the delivery of that important book of rules - 12" and have rapid firing guns for an effective 24" range with 4 plasma shots, that seems good to me! Having 2 units of these would be even better! Melta is possibly a valid option as well if you need extra anti-tank, not sure of the flamer version but maybe one of you most esteemed honourary marines might have an opinion there! I know much probably depends on what the rest of your army looks like and what you may be lacking. I'll have 3 AV13 tanks and 2 Dreads in my army as well, so plenty target saturation there. It's more of an idea at the moment, but if it works the way I think it does I'll definitely want to try it out! I do have a question though, how would you resolve a 'Gets Hot' result if the shooter is firing from inside the transport? And yes, quite possibly a sensible idea to have a read of the rules before I start asking questions, just this has been on my mind all day and wanted to get it down before I lose my... thoughts Have you guys got any experience/opinions playing with such units? Is it viable/playable? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Ravel Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 1) I think the Rhino /w Assault are pretty good. I tried also with Razorback because I had extra pts and it was nice (but too pricy). Solid choice IMO : more surviviability, and perfect access to those 2 firing pts. Also, Fast Rhinos are perfect scoring unit. Problem is of course that they are easy target for First Blood and will never have Objective Secured (but I never play with Obj Secured anyway) 2) You resolve the Gets Hot as normal : roll for armor, remove casualty if he fails. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marshal Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 If passengers are embarked in a transport which moves at combat speed count as having moved that turn. If the transport moved at cruising speed they can only snap fire. (Look under vehicles/transports/fire points. Fast vehicles that moved at combat speed in the movement phase can fire all of their weapons. Fast vehicles that moved at cruising speed can fire up to two weapons at full ballistic. (look under vehicles/fast vehicles/ shooting with fast vehicles Which pretty much destroys that tactic. I tried to do the same thing until that was pointed out to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njjesters4 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The rhinos are fast though so can't they move the 12" and still have two guys fire from inside. Just want to clarify. Very new player Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
t4play Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I may be wrong here but I'm sure assault weapons should be able to fire after moving 12" Heavy weapons would have snap fire I've got tac's with flamer and heavy flamer ( which is assault weapon not heavy) so hopefully these should be ok after 12" move? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marshal Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Nope there is no exception for weapon type or passengers of fast transports. Unless of course someone can cite the rule that says you can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Given the restriction on embark units firing if moving over 12", it may be better to simply put a Tac squad in a fast Lasplas Razorback. Similar firepower which can be fired even when moving 12". The troops inside need to disembark to fire but that is not too bad. Give them a heavy flamer and they can BBQ infantry while the Razorback targets heavier foes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
t4play Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Or just tank shock / corral the enemy infantry and toast them between 2 rhinos and a flamerback Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 5 Assault Marines, 2 plasma guns, rhino 100pts 5 Tactical, Las/Plasma back 155pts You pay your troop tax with the Tactical, option, but at 55pts thats a hefty charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It makes a good mobile bunker. Add an extra storm bolter to the rhino for 5pts and you're getting 2 plasma and 4 bolt shots at 24" for 105pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatcaber Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 If I am not mistaken 5 assault in a Rhino with 2 plasmaguns is 115 points, that's according to the codex! Regardless, this topic is about Assault squads in Rhino's and their uses. not tactical squads in Razorbacks :P Still, good to see so many replies :D Doesn't Fast give a vehicle a combat speed of 12"? Seem to recall it did in 6th, but may have changed (or my memory could be failing me). Just trying to clarify, as I am still unsure. How far can a Fast transport move so the plasmagunner retains Rapid Fire without resorting to Snap Shots, is it 6" or 12"? Even if only 6" that's still adding 6" to 2/4 plasma shots! For 100 points you can take 5 guys, a Rhino, 2 flamers and a dozerblade. Ram it up some cover entrenched with enemy troops for some burny goodness! I'm definitely more interested in the 2 plasmagun version though, we have plenty of anti-infantry and anti-tank elsewhere, I should hope so anyway! And the enemy may well overlook such an 'innocent' looking little tank when you have Baals, Vindicators, Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders and all the other goodies we can take, not to mention all the Elite infantry as well. This squad is cheap/expendable so not a major loss if indeed it is lost, but also Fast and capable of many different battlefield roles depending on how you set them up. Just throwing some ideas out there, I'm no expert :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3938980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Pretty sure the model dies from gets hot if he fails save inside transport, i don't use plasma a lot though, not 100% sure on this. They changed the fast rules from 5th to 6th i think? I don't have the old dex available. Just to clear up 7th rules: Fast veichles count as moving the same speed as normal ones, but they have more options at their respective speeds. Normal veichle combat speed: 1 mounted weapon at normal bs (but can fire 2 fire point shots at normal BS) Fast veichle combat speed: all mounted weapons and can fire the same amount of fire point Normal veichle cruising speed: Snapshots on everything mounted and fire point Fast veichle cruising speed: Can fire 2 mounted weapons, but must snapfire from fire points (they still count as moving cruising) If you want to maximize range from a Rhino you need to move 6" disembark 6" then fire for 12+weapon range. So in that regard fast rhinos and normal are the same. The nice thing with fast Rhino is that you can flatout 12" and drive in front of the unit that shot giving them better protection. Assault squads are great value in Rhinos/Pods. I have tried them with the new dex, both options are strong. Being so cheap your not really worried about them getting shot at as they have amazing survivability per point. There is a batrep here (BA Rhino spam list) with the new dex, if you want some inspiration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY7GaHti3RM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3939259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The fast vehicle rule gives vehicles special move shoot rules, but makes no mention of passengers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3939261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If you want to maximize range from a Rhino you need to move 6" disembark 6" then fire for 12+weapon range. So in that regard fast rhinos and normal are the same. The nice thing with fast Rhino is that you can flatout 12" and drive in front of the unit that shot giving them better protection. 90% Sure you are forbidden from flatting out if troops disembark that turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3939742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Oh, hmm we have been playing wrong, yeah it says you can only move/flatout if you disembark before moving transport. Mostly used pods in 6th, too bad :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If I am not mistaken 5 assault in a Rhino with 2 plasmaguns is 115 points, that's according to the codex! Regardless, this topic is about Assault squads in Rhino's and their uses. not tactical squads in Razorbacks Units to not exist in isolation. Asking about the merits of a particular unit/combo invites comparison to similar units to see how they compare in terms of cost and performance. A dual special weapon assault squad and a Tac squad in razorback are both small infantry units in light transports optimised for close-range fire fighting. The Assault squad is cheaper but the Tac squad fills your Troop tax and is potentially a bit shootier. I don't think it is going OT to compare similar units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Zaius Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Assault Squads in Rhinos are one of the best units in the book and even in the game. - You are paying 8 points for marine, you will never find more resistance for less points - You can add two special weapons. Ironically they are one of the best units of the game at shooting! - But they can resist an assault, also, as three miniatures have 2 attacks. - If you disembark, Fast Rhinos are great for claiming an objective or covering your forces - And if you take two plasma guns, you can move 12" and fire against the rear of a plane. That's better than a flakk missile. I'm thinking playing Flesh Tearers only for the fast attack slots Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njjesters4 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Just to clarify. If we move 12" can two marines still fire at full ballistic skill from the hatches. I've seen contradictory theories here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 ITT: People who don't read their rulebooks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Just to clarify. If we move 12" can two marines still fire at full ballistic skill from the hatches. I've seen contradictory theories here. No. In the post above yours, Dr Zaius is referring to shooting at a Flyer and as this is done on a six anyway, it doesn't matter if you move greater than 6". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njjesters4 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thank you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatcaber Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't think it is going OT to compare similar units. I was only being facetious, Dronuk, pay it no mind The best thing for me about the Assault over the Tacs is I can take 2 plasmaguns, whereas the Tacs can only take one, and your paying 65 points for the privilege of a Razorback in either squad which has no fire points. If I could take a Razorback for free I probably would, but fast, free Rhino's are definitely worth taking, I'm sure, the fact that it is free is just the gravy! So, 2 such units is 4 plasmaguns, the passengers can get an extra 6", 12" if they disembark, on their rapid fire range. 8 plasma shots to somethings' face is got to hurt... or it can be several dead marines if you're unlucky, lol. Plus... this: Assault Squads in Rhinos are one of the best units in the book and even in the game. - You are paying 8 points for marine, you will never find more resistance for less points - You can add two special weapons. Ironically they are one of the best units of the game at shooting! - But they can resist an assault, also, as three miniatures have 2 attacks. - If you disembark, Fast Rhinos are great for claiming an objective or covering your forces - And if you take two plasma guns, you can move 12" and fire against the rear of a plane. That's better than a flakk missile. I'm thinking playing Flesh Tearers only for the fast attack slots I posted up an army list by the way - that's my edit :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3940860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Hot damn, I hadn't done a points breakdown. 8pts for a space marine in a squad that can double up on specials is absurd value. My grey hunters are weeping in the most bearded and manly way possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/302898-assault-squads-in-rhinos/#findComment-3942445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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