JeffJedi Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I'm going to be playing a couple battles in a few weeks at 1750 points and I am tired of being hopelessly outnumbered. What are some good value units that I can bring? Is the Standard of Devastation worth it on a static tactical army? I usually bring it when using Ravenwing. Would the Standard of Fortune be more useful in defense? Are massed tactical squads worth trying? There will be 6 total players and we will draw straws to find out who we will play for 2 games. My potential opponents will be Necron, Chaos Marines, Orks, Tyranids, Tau, Dark Eldar, Space Wolves and Imperial Guard (!) so a take all comers list will be best. I can bring anything in the codex chapter except Drop Pods, the new Speeders and Flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epimetheus13 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Whirlwinds and Vindicators. Pie plates of S10/AP1 and out of sight ignore cover Barrages should effectively even the numbers against all your opposing armies except Chaos Marines and Space Wolves. Are you allowed allies? Imperials, Inquisition, Knights or Codex marines are all options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I personally like mass tacticals and Dev's. Has worked well for me in the past. A lot of opponents really can't deal with 50 marines. But that's me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 As already said, Whirlwinds are a great choice especially when you have a nice mix of opponents that are not all in Power Armour. Can you get a hold of at least 1 Drop Pod? In the couple of times I have fielded them, a Command Squad with 5 Meltas and a cheap Librarian with PFG all in a pod has made an excellent alpha strike tank popper for me. They last longer than a throw away unit due to the PFG and the Libby can give them Prescience for max damage. Mine have always lasted till about turn 2 or 3. If you want them to last that little bit longer you can make one of them an Apothecary and you can give the Libby a combi-melta. No matter what you decide though make sure you have a solid core of mobile troops to take objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 to add squads for cheap? scouts are solid cheap bodies that cost only 10 points more than imperial guard, and regardless of any loadout other than shotguns you have AP equivalent to other space marines, 4 + armor is a bit lousy but they have scout so they can get up the field quickly. if your allowed allies i like militarium tempestus since their base troops as bs4, 4+ armor, ap3, and they all base value have deepstrike. a comissar is only 30 points so an allied detachment is actually fairly cheap 25 for the hq 70 for a base squad of tempestus tada allies CAD minimums met for 95pts. they can provide immedeate threat to the board because they can dump a serious amount of gunfire down the table (all their weapons are hotshot lasrifles s3 ap3 rapid fire). and their a way to get cheap small pieplates as well (per 5 guys you can get a grande launcher for 5 pts) and they can can mix well naturally with any of our three wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ah, now I am really liking these ideas! The Whirlwind is a staple of my army already and I have a partially built Vindicator to finish. I have always wanted to try melta command squad but I never thought of adding a PFG Librarian to them. Sounds deadly and will be a new trick up my sleeve. I do have a Knight but I don't think I will be able to play it based on points. Sniper Scouts are usually a go for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I will be a heretic and say: if you have some points and a FA slot to spare... Assault squad with 2 flamers and combi flamer. It will be roasting Nids and SW defensively, roasting orks both on offense and defense, Tau, Necron and IG on the offense. They wn't break the bank and with decent cover LoS blocker can be a good surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ok, with Lucifer's Flamer Assault Squad I am up to 952 of my 1750. Still plenty of points to play with here and a healthy 35 models so far. Librarian, PFGCommand Squad, 5 Meltaguns, Drop Pod (borrow my brother's)Scout Squad (6), Sniper Rifles, Missile LauncherTactical Squad, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, LascannonAssault Squad, Vet, Powersword, Melta Bombs, 2 FlamersWhirlwindVindicator (finish building) I should toss in some Deathwing and Ravenwing surely. I have a couple weeks to fine tune this list so more suggestions are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Honestly with Raven and Deathwing's I'd either make them a staple or leave them at home. I would add at least one more Tac Squad and if you can fill the scout squad to 10. Much better than five rifles. Also plasma! We are the first legion we need plasma! Ok bit over the top but seriously some plasma heavy squad of something would help out. If you want to give the assault squad some more oomph you can add a Reclusiarch with Jump Pack and he will help them smash things. Then you could add another command squad with full Plas or four plasma and Apoth. Need a delivery system though. Rhino or another pod. Or if you want you could swap the Meltaguns for Plasma on your current command squad. Do up a Ravenwing squad with melta's......add an attack bike with Multi Melta and outflank (highly recommended) and if you really feel squirrely bring a Landspeeder with Multi Melta and Heavy flamer. Last option covers your Melta issues with plenty of bikes. Gives you a Plasma squad in the Command Squad and you could drop the Reclusiarch I suggested and still have it all. I wouldn't do more than one squad of Ravenwing though. Personally I always go with the full squad Attack bike and the Lanspeeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galthan Ironsturm Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If you take Black Knights with Rad Grenades ...bolters cause Instand Death on the poorest Guard, Dark Eldars and Taus, and, in addition if you have the Dakka Banner... Your Wirlwhind become very dangerous too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Yup, Black Knights. You will probably need a way to throat punch termie armour and definitely clear some power armour, plasma talons are never a bad idea. Never. Maybe a Typhoon or three as well, you are a little lite on long range touching. And if you're keen on adding DW then why not? DSing into the thick will help keep your Warlord and his squad alive a bit longer while your Assault Squad etc push forward into the face of the baddies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Had another idea. Six men devastator with 4 Heavy bolters - 114 points. Can punish any oponent you face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Heavy Bolters are a staple of most of my non BOD lists (there on vehicles but same principle) due to range and volume of suppressing fire they can put a dent in any force. Rhino's and Razorbacks for the troops give mobile objective secured units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Depends of what you means by "numbers" Personnally I play a poded DA army consisting of 2 librarians 1 command squad with 5 meltas 1command squad with 5 plasmas 4x 10 tacticals with melta MM combi melta Ven dread with TLHF/HF 5 assault marines with dual flamer 57 infantry models + one dread + 8 pods (7 with deathwind ML) I'm rarely out numbered... Particularly after the first shooting phase :P Now you can replace the dread with company vets with bolter plasma rasing your number to 62... More than half a company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I see a deficiency of metal Bawkses.. Definately rhinos/HB Razorbacks. Rhinos will let the Special weapon combat squad go tank hunting while you leave the heavy half back where the BoD stands.. More Tacticals. Do not lightly pass over the 95pt Predator either.Scouting Black Knights and a Deep Striking, Twin Linked, Deathwing squad can wreck troops and light tanks in the back field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ok, at 1747 points and 54 models we have this army: Librarian, PFG Command Squad, 5 Meltaguns,Drop pod Scout Squad (9), sniper rifles, missile launcher, Cameo Cloaks Tactical Squad (10), Combi Plasma, Plasma Gun, Lascannon Assault Squad (10), Vet Sgt, Powersword, Meltabombs, 2 Flamers Whirlwind Vindicator Deathwing Squad (5), Chainfist, Assault Cannon Company Veterans (5), 2 Combi Meltas, 2 Combi Plasma, Plasma GunRazorback, Twin Heavy Bolter Predator, Autocannon, 2 Heavy Bolters Ravenwing Black Knights (3), Grenade Launcher Ravenwing Landspeeder, Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher I'm a little bit iffy about the Typhoon Speeder as it always explodes so I could swap that out and change the scout numbers to gain points for something else. What do you think, brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngeal Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Personal thought is that the assault cannon isn't worth its points. Also, it's tempting to run just 3 black knights, but I would go at least 5, just so they survive to do something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Maybe if I drop the speeder and a scout or two I could upgrade the Librarian, swap in a cyclone missile launcher and gain a Black Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I know I'm late to the discussion, but if it's worth anything to you... 1) go full Greenwing. In my army list I've got a fully mobile demi-company plus Chaplain and Librarian at 1500pts. As DoC Sgt says, 50-odd PA bodies is nothing to be sniffed at. 2) alternatively, use DeathRaven to deny your opponent his/her numbers. Bikes or Black knights guiding in a DW Flamer & Claws squad would in theory tie up any blob squad threatening to overwhelm, allowing a Greenwing gunline to focus on selected higher value targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If you take the one Typhoon keep it at the back and just shoot missiles all game and use it to cap home objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'm loving the way there is no repeated units in your list :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sindiferous Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I agree with Solrac. Use the Typhoon at a distance. With 48" range you can pop up from behind cover to potentially pen and explode armored vehicles or hovering fliers and provides some heavy artillery support dealing death to troops in the open. I sometimes run 3 Speeders, two with missiles from a distance and one with flamer and cannon to provide close support to assaulting troops and bikes. Don't forget BatReps when you start the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo1701 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 This is the Imperial Fists list I ran with in my last game, and will be using today, with any luck. Imperial Fists (1840pts) Space Marines: Codex (2013) v60 (Primary Detachment) (No Category) Chapter TacticsImperial Fists Command Squad3x Bolt Pistol, Company Standard, Frag and Krak Grenades, Meltagun, Plasma Gun, Power Armour, Power Fist, 3x Veteran ApothecaryBolt Pistol, Chainsword Company ChampionCombat Shield, Power Sword HQ CaptainArtificer Armor, Power Fist, Storm Bolter LibrarianMastery Level 2 Terminator ArmourForce Maul Elites Terminator Assault SquadSwap Lightning Claws for TH/SS, 4x Terminators Land Raider RedeemerMulti-Melta Terminator SergeantSwap Lightning Claws for TH/SS Troops Tactical SquadMeltagun, Multi-Melta, 9x Space Marine Space Marine SergeantGrav Pistol, Power Weapon Tactical SquadGrav-gun, Plasma Cannon, 9x Space Marine Space Marine SergeantPlasma Pistol, Power Weapon Heavy Support Devastator Squad2x Heavy Bolter, 2x Lascannon, 9x Space Marine Space Marine SergeantBolter, Chainsword Devastator Squad2x Lascannon, 2x Missile Launcher w/ flakk, 9x Space Marine Space Marine SergeantBolt pistol, Combi-weapon PredatorAutocannon, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolter Created with BattleScribe Obviously, DA don't have access to Grav weapons so you'd have to switch them out. As it's around 100 points over, maybe removing the captain or command squad might be the best bet.Hope it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 We're pretty much always hopelessly outnumbered because our elite units (note, not just Elite units) are quite a bit more expensive than their codex counterparts and equivalents from other codices. I ALWAYS run the Standard of Devastation in a static gunline; just two Tactical Squads are doing the work of eight at long range and four at 12" or less. I had a friend of mine tell me just the other day that my firepower was disgusting (he played White Scars). In my personal opinion, adding numbers isn't the way to go. As I said with the Tacticals, you're simulating much higher numbers just by using a force multiplier and I think that's the crux of our army; force multiplication. Ravenwing Grenade Launchers amplify the effectiveness of any other unit that hits the affected opposing unit, Vengeful Strike amplifies the firepower of our Deathwing on the turn they Deep Strike and the Standard of Devastation/Librarian with Prescience combo is pure awesomesauce. I hope my suggestions are of some worth to you, even if it's just to give you a laugh as you sit there thinking "noob". Took me a long time to realise that greater numbers weren't the key to using Dark Angels, but I'm starting to put the fear of the First back into my gaming circle now that I've had my little epiphany. Force Multiplication and synergy. It's lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 We're pretty much always hopelessly outnumbered because our elite units (note, not just Elite units) are quite a bit more expensive than their codex counterparts and equivalents from other codices. I ALWAYS run the Standard of Devastation in a static gunline; just two Tactical Squads are doing the work of eight at long range and four at 12" or less. I had a friend of mine tell me just the other day that my firepower was disgusting (he played White Scars). In my personal opinion, adding numbers isn't the way to go. As I said with the Tacticals, you're simulating much higher numbers just by using a force multiplier and I think that's the crux of our army; force multiplication. Ravenwing Grenade Launchers amplify the effectiveness of any other unit that hits the affected opposing unit, Vengeful Strike amplifies the firepower of our Deathwing on the turn they Deep Strike and the Standard of Devastation/Librarian with Prescience combo is pure awesomesauce. I hope my suggestions are of some worth to you, even if it's just to give you a laugh as you sit there thinking "noob". Took me a long time to realise that greater numbers weren't the key to using Dark Angels, but I'm starting to put the fear of the First back into my gaming circle now that I've had my little epiphany. Force Multiplication and synergy. It's lovely. Not that i'm disagreeing with you, but i always think that even with all those synergies... Greenwing list works best if you got the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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