Jolemai Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I agree that just a few scouts squad on the table alone is a very risky way to start the game, it would need some tweaking; I've been doing the same with scouts and drop-pods (and a single StormRaven and deep strikers) but at least then 2 (of the 3) pods come in on turn 1. StormRavens are great though and tough to kill (on the whole much tougher than in the last edition where you ran 2 of them). I've been playing some very shooty Eldar armies and they've done well and you only have to hover on the turn you're delivering the goods (assaulters!); just don't wait too long. I guess 'intercepter' stuff is pretty non-existent around here but I could see that being a concern if you face a lot of it. Thing is, 5th ed was so "List"-centric. You could build lists tailored for every occasion and the game was won and lost at your computer rather than on the table. Lists are still important but the reason I love this edition so much is because you have to play to win. Yes, sometimes stuff dies, and sometimes you lose but if you were doing ok using the old codex, even in 5th edition, I can't imagine you having too much trouble with this one. I'll definitely be giving Ravens a run out alright, just not sure when, probably when the points aren't at 1650. Right now I'm looking at this as a reasonably balanced list: 1650 FT Strike Force Sang Priest, Bike, Combi-Grav, Extra Pistol, Melta Bombs 9 DC, 2 Power Fist, 1 Power Weapon, JP's 9 DC, 2 Power Fist, 1 Power Weapon, JP's 5 Tacs, HF, Pod 5 Tacs, HF, Pod 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav When do you get a chance to playtest it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's the best BA Codex bar none. Only letdown is Tycho.. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Is anyone else unhappy with the new Codex? I've been playing BA since they were released in 5th in 2010 and played them almost exclusively and competitively for 4 years, almost always doing well. With this new Codex I just find myself making lists and then scrapping them as I don't think they're good enough for my Tournament Meta which contains Grav spam White Scars, Triple Riptide/Sky Rays and what seems to be the superior SW. What do ye think? The army was far from able to compete with those armies before. Now, it's not on par with the strongest things in the game, but you're at least paying an appropriate price for what you're getting and have some pretty solid tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepowerofwar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Once you've played some games, many of your fears will be dealt with. Cons Many units moved to already congested slots our troops now suck(imo us having ASM as troops is part of why i started BA) Furiosos/DC dreads forgot how to fight and lost weapons and WS Leo/chaplains are now garbage due to them not helping dc and being like reg SM now Congested slots aren't a problem at all with the myriad of formations and multiple detachments available to us. Right now, C:SM are wishing they had Tacticals like us and Scouts rock. Our Dreadnoughts being reigned in to where they should have been isn't a problem. The only weapon we lost was the magna grapple which has been changed to something more useful and appropriate. It was never supposed to be a pseudo melta gun. Both tweaks mean more thought goes into their use. Chaplains and Lemartes caused DC to re-roll their to hits in the first round of combat as opposed to the one they charged. Have re-roll to wound as well was arguably a little too much and it seems fitting that only Astorath has it to give you a reason to choose him over the cheaper, yet more flexible HQ Chaplain. Seriously, don't think about it in a "OMG NERF!" kind of way: think about it with an opened mind and what you can do with what you have. This book is the way forward, grumbling over the past book isn't going to get you anywhere. Now i am not trying to say its all bad but the negative is greater atm from what i have read(still in progress of reading) For me at least the slot thing is much worse than before due to ASM moving to fast and DC moving to elites which leave 2 units which i have always dislike to say the least. I am saying that some people may like tacs and scouts but they are 2 units that in may past EDs kept me from starting a marine army in the first place due to my dislike of them. As for the dread i loved that we actually had a 3rd weapon due to walkers having no restrictions on how many weapons it could fire so its loss is huge to me and we lost our blood talons as far as i am concerned. woot they are ap 2 s 10 but with lower WS and no extra attacks and costing more points Too......... And for the chaplains they are just an SM in red armour now their individuality is gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 I agree that just a few scouts squad on the table alone is a very risky way to start the game, it would need some tweaking; I've been doing the same with scouts and drop-pods (and a single StormRaven and deep strikers) but at least then 2 (of the 3) pods come in on turn 1. StormRavens are great though and tough to kill (on the whole much tougher than in the last edition where you ran 2 of them). I've been playing some very shooty Eldar armies and they've done well and you only have to hover on the turn you're delivering the goods (assaulters!); just don't wait too long. I guess 'intercepter' stuff is pretty non-existent around here but I could see that being a concern if you face a lot of it. Thing is, 5th ed was so "List"-centric. You could build lists tailored for every occasion and the game was won and lost at your computer rather than on the table. Lists are still important but the reason I love this edition so much is because you have to play to win. Yes, sometimes stuff dies, and sometimes you lose but if you were doing ok using the old codex, even in 5th edition, I can't imagine you having too much trouble with this one. I'll definitely be giving Ravens a run out alright, just not sure when, probably when the points aren't at 1650. Right now I'm looking at this as a reasonably balanced list: 1650 FT Strike Force Sang Priest, Bike, Combi-Grav, Extra Pistol, Melta Bombs 9 DC, 2 Power Fist, 1 Power Weapon, JP's 9 DC, 2 Power Fist, 1 Power Weapon, JP's 5 Tacs, HF, Pod 5 Tacs, HF, Pod 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav When do you get a chance to playtest it? Tested it out not an hour ago against a SW + BA list. His list at 1650: Lord, Thunder Wolf, Power Fist, Rune Armour Iron Priest, Thunder Wolf, Harness 4 Thunder Wolves, 3 Shields, 4 MB's, 1 Fist 5 Blood Claws, Storm Wolves, MM upgrade 5 Blood Claws, Storm Wolves, MM upgrade Chaplain, Bike Priest, Bike Tactial Squad, Heavy Flamer, Pod Tactial Squad, Heavy Flamer, Pod Assault Squad, 2 Meltagun, Pod Drop Pod. I got absolutely hocked. I killed 1 Thunder Wolf, the two tac squads and the assault squad, I lost everything, my opponents list is made to survive and be very killy though. I will be continuing to use this list though as I really like it but this is a revised one: Priest, Bike Priest, Bike 8 DC, Power Fist, 2 Power Axes, Jump Packs 8 DC, Power Fist, 2 Power Axes, Jump Packs 5 Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Pod 5 Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Pod 5 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Pod 5 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Pod 5 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Pod 5 Bikers, 2 Grav, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav, Combi-Grav Turn 2 I charged the thunder cav blo after hitting it with 6 meltaguns, 7 Grav guns and every bolt weapon available, followed by a charge from 18 DC and did 3 wounds to it. 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I agree that just a few scouts squad on the table alone is a very risky way to start the game, it would need some tweaking; I've been doing the same with scouts and drop-pods (and a single StormRaven and deep strikers) but at least then 2 (of the 3) pods come in on turn 1. StormRavens are great though and tough to kill (on the whole much tougher than in the last edition where you ran 2 of them). I've been playing some very shooty Eldar armies and they've done well and you only have to hover on the turn you're delivering the goods (assaulters!); just don't wait too long. I guess 'intercepter' stuff is pretty non-existent around here but I could see that being a concern if you face a lot of it. Thing is, 5th ed was so "List"-centric. You could build lists tailored for every occasion and the game was won and lost at your computer rather than on the table. Lists are still important but the reason I love this edition so much is because you have to play to win. Yes, sometimes stuff dies, and sometimes you lose but if you were doing ok using the old codex, even in 5th edition, I can't imagine you having too much trouble with this one. I'll definitely be giving Ravens a run out alright, just not sure when, probably when the points aren't at 1650. Right now I'm looking at this as a reasonably balanced list: 1650 FT Strike Force Sang Priest, Bike, Combi-Grav, Extra Pistol, Melta Bombs 9 DC, 2 Power Fist, 1 Power Weapon, JP's 9 DC, 2 Power Fist, 1 Power Weapon, JP's 5 Tacs, HF, Pod 5 Tacs, HF, Pod 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Assault Marines, Pod, 2 Melta's, Combi-Melta 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav Guns, Combi-Grav When do you get a chance to playtest it? Tested it out not an hour ago against a SW + BA list. His list at 1650: Lord, Thunder Wolf, Power Fist, Rune Armour Iron Priest, Thunder Wolf, Harness 4 Thunder Wolves, 3 Shields, 4 MB's, 1 Fist 5 Blood Claws, Storm Wolves, MM upgrade 5 Blood Claws, Storm Wolves, MM upgrade Chaplain, Bike Priest, Bike Tactial Squad, Heavy Flamer, Pod Tactial Squad, Heavy Flamer, Pod Assault Squad, 2 Meltagun, Pod Drop Pod. I got absolutely hocked. I killed 1 Thunder Wolf, the two tac squads and the assault squad, I lost everything, my opponents list is made to survive and be very killy though. I will be continuing to use this list though as I really like it but this is a revised one: Priest, Bike Priest, Bike 8 DC, Power Fist, 2 Power Axes, Jump Packs 8 DC, Power Fist, 2 Power Axes, Jump Packs 5 Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Pod 5 Tacticals, Heavy Flamer, Pod 5 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Pod 5 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Pod 5 Assault Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta, Pod 5 Bikers, 2 Grav, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav, Combi-Grav 5 Bikers, 2 Grav, Combi-Grav Turn 2 I charged the thunder cav blo after hitting it with 6 meltaguns, 7 Grav guns and every bolt weapon available, followed by a charge from 18 DC and did 3 wounds to it. 3. You must have rolled horribly. Thats 58 str5 int5 regular, 10 str5 int5 power weapon and 8 str9 ap2 power fist attacks.If you had the priest with them than half the attacks are ws5. And you said you also shot them with everything you had? Either you whiffed or your opponent should go to vegas and roll some dice there. He could be rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 You must have rolled horribly. Thats 58 str5 int5 regular, 10 str5 int5 power weapon and 8 str9 ap2 power fist attacks.If you had the priest with them than half the attacks are ws5. And you said you also shot them with everything you had? Either you whiffed or your opponent should go to vegas and roll some dice there. He could be rich. They weren't at I5 unfortunately due to being a Flesh Tearers Strike Force and you're right, I did roll terribly but not too far under average. His saves were not bad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 You must have rolled horribly. Thats 58 str5 int5 regular, 10 str5 int5 power weapon and 8 str9 ap2 power fist attacks.If you had the priest with them than half the attacks are ws5. And you said you also shot them with everything you had? Either you whiffed or your opponent should go to vegas and roll some dice there. He could be rich. They weren't at I5 unfortunately due to being a Flesh Tearers Strike Force and you're right, I did roll terribly but not too far under average. His saves were not bad though. It doesn't matter all that much in this instance since all his units are the same initiative. But 3 wounds is incredibly low even if it was only the shooting phaes. This is not about the new codex at this point it is just sheer bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Lucius Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 It doesn't matter all that much in this instance since all his units are the same initiative. But 3 wounds is incredibly low even if it was only the shooting phaes. This is not about the new codex at this point it is just sheer bad luck. Oh God yeah and to be fair, I really like this list and think it can be very good, I think with this codex its finding the right synergy/combos whereas other codexes such as Wolves/Tau/Eldar have a fair whack of auto take units. I'm coming around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 It doesn't matter all that much in this instance since all his units are the same initiative. But 3 wounds is incredibly low even if it was only the shooting phaes. This is not about the new codex at this point it is just sheer bad luck. Oh God yeah and to be fair, I really like this list and think it can be very good, I think with this codex its finding the right synergy/combos whereas other codexes such as Wolves/Tau/Eldar have a fair whack of auto take units. I'm coming around. Been having fun list building and preparing for my friends three armies(Tau, Dark Eldar and Emperor's Children/CSM) and that is something I've realized too. There are no major auto includes...but there can be a lot of in game situational synergy which can be devastating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Our new codex has a lot of strengths imo. Dante, Karlsen (their reserve manipulations also) heavy flamer tacs, dc now viable with jps, meltacide dp and grav bikes. Oh and fc and +1i on the charge is pure cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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