Australian forum thinks Fast Vindis can't move 12" and shoot

[Xenith]

Dear lord.

The wording is:

"Ordnance weapons cannot fire snap shots"

That is perfectly fine, as it is not firing the weapon as a snap shot...

just to clarify Xenith, it's not the Ordnance type that cannot fire snap shots. Ordnance, in fact, can snap fire.

My quote is from the rulebook. Literally from the rulebook, word for word.

And thank you, I do know the difference between a blast weapon and a non blast weapon :eyeroll:

However you may wish to check your rulebook and actually provide quoted evidence rather than what you remember

That is a good point and to be honest I normally mistake Ordnance for blast and I play tournaments a fair bit.

Then again new editions always complicate things and we are only in the infancy of 7th so these things still crop up and will for some time to come.

The Ordnance/Blast thing is not new. Very not new. It's been around since 3rd edition in 1998.

[Dusktiger]

that quote you posted is in the Ordnance description while its discussing non-vehicle models and how they interact. if you read another line in, it also states you cant fire any other weapons on that model.  Vehicles however, change what Ordnance can and cannot do.  you're correct for non-vehicle models firing the weapon.  but we are discussing a vehicle model Xenith.  Weapon types are a basic rule; unit type is a more advanced rule that will override weapon mechanics.  and in turn, Universal Special Rules will override the mechanics again, such as the case when we add in rules such as relentless, slow and purposeful, and power of the machine spirit.

 

the rules for this game are not so simple that one can just look at a single line on a single page, and that's that; you have to reference several rules, on several pages, through multiple chapters, and in some cases, multiple books, before the answer is clear. 

 

as an aside though, when you're going to dispute a rule issue with a quote from the book, you should really tell where you find it.  Yes, the paperback and digital copies dont come up on the same page number, but at the very least, you can name the chapter and relevant paragraph.

 

the entire paragraph, which is on pg 41 in paperback, Weapons chapter, under Ordnance weapons is;

 

When shooting, a model with an Ordnance weapon fires the number of times indicated in its profile after its type. A Non-vehicle model carrying an Ordnance weapon cannot fire it in the shooting phase if he moved in the preceding Movement phase. Ordnance weapons cannot fire Snap Shots. Furthermore, if a non-vehicle model fires and Ordnance weapon, then the massive recoil from the Ordnance weapon means that the model cannot fire other weapons that phase, nor will it be able to charge in the ensuing assault phase.

Ordnance weapons hit with such force that when you roll to penetrate a vehicle's armour with an Ordnance weapon, roll two dice instead of one and pick the highest result!

 

now we go to the Vehicles chapter, page 73 paperback, under vehicles in the shooting phase:

 

All vehicles have the relentless special rule, but the number (and accuracy) of the weapons a vehicle can fire in the shooting phase depends on how fast it moved in the turn's movement phase.

---snip---

vehicles & Ordnance weapons

unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires and Ordnance weapon can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn. A vehicle that moved at cruising speed (6-12") can still Snap Shoot Ordnance, but of course, cannot fire any Ordnance weapon that cannot be fired as Snap Shots.

 

the only Ordnance weapons on a vehicle that cannot snap shoot are the ones that place Blast templates on the table when they fire, as templates are never allowed to Snap Shoot.

 

finally, for fast vehicles. we look at the Vehicles chapter, page 88 paperback, under Fast Vehicles:

 

Shooting with fast vehicles

fast vehicles that moved at Combat Speed in the preceding movement phase can fire all of their weapons, just like other types of vehicles that have remained stationary. Fast vehicles that moved at Cruising Speed can fire up to two weapons using their full Ballistic Skill - other weapons can only make Snap Shots.

 

as you can see, we had to look through 3 different areas of the core rulebook to figure out what could and couldn't be done.  and as a reference, all of the Ordnance weapons i had listed earlier are found on either a vehicle, or a building, so you have to look further than just the Ordnance weapon description to see how they work.

[knife&fork]

And with that excellent post I think it's time to close this thread....

 

To be honest it has already dragged on for far too long. :) 

 

If someone want to start this debacle again in the OR forums; please make yours a quality post where you lay out your argument clearly with references, whatever side you're on.