Rottimus Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 They got a bit cheaper but are they still viable? I've run them a few times since we got the new codex and for their price they always end up at 'meh' Running a ten man unit seems good, it'll smash through most things but your looking at 350 ish pts for a 10 man unit. Even more if you start attaching characters to it. My question and feeling is - Why run 10 sang guard when, 10 death company with 8 pw's seems more effective against all-comers? Sure, you lose 2+ save but in return get feel no pain and 2 more attacks on the charge. I don't generally take angelus bolt guns into account because they are little circumstantial, the extra shot, pr guy might take a out a few more guardsmen, orks or warriors but it won't make up for 2 extra pw attacks on the charge. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Sang guard and DC do completely different things though. The DC are the most reliable at mulching regular infantry and GEQs while sanguard are death star and elite unit butchers. The latter are best either taken minimalist and sent in after you've tied up an expensive unit for a decisive victory or going the whole hog and maxing out with banner, Dante, and Sang priest. This is a death star in itself but can handle almost anything in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I dont know if I'd really call the SG deathstar or elite unit butchers. I mean, power weapons, yes, but the majority will be swords at aAP3 while most deathstars or elite units will have a 2+ save. This is rectified by adding Dante, I suppose. I see SG as more a bully unit, to go and take on and kill (with ease) your opponents backfield or troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Whenever I've seen them played they have a sang priest with the AP2 sword and Dante. Also usually a librarian to buff Dante as well. Realistically the sanguard just provide warm bodies to catch bullets but its still probably the best death star unit that we easily have access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottimus Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 sanguard are death star and elite unit butchers. See, I'm not sure I agree. The +2 save is great! really. It helps a lot but I think when compared to say Death Company. Sang guard almost always come up short. I'm not trying to convince you or claim you're wrong or anything, just explaining my troubles... Against a daemon prince? Death company are better due to feel no pain and more attacks Other marines? Again more attacks is the key. Keep in might that death company with jump packs and power weapons are only marginally more expensive than sang guard and you can always have a few at the front without PW to soak up some wounds. Massed infantry and blobs? DC all the way Enemy HQ's and elites? Sang guard might be the way to go if your enemy HQ is a chaos lord (ap3 usually or striking last if ap2) It just seems like Astorath + death company with pw will almost always outshine sang guard... even with dante. Dante with death company is actually great seeing as you gain hit & run and can re-charge for that +2 rage attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well when you add a SP the Sanguinary Guard has FnP too, after a 2+ save. They also have master-crafted power swords and I find the Angelis bolter excellent if you want to keep cost down. Add the banner and you get that extra attack. My 10 man SG with priest and Dante shrugged off an incredible number of AP2 hits (suncannon) between FnP and Dante tanking some. If your meta has lots of 2+ armour you can take (master-crafted) Axes for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Sanguinary Guard with a Pair of Power Fists, a couple axes, Banner and priest come in around the same of 10 death company armed the same way and have better saves. For Instance 10 Death Company with Jump Packs and Power Weapons are 380 points, 10 Guard are 350. Both have pros and cons, Guard get some auto rerolls due to weapons, DC need to take Lemartes or Astorath, these are all things to take into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusara217 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Sanguinary Guard are more of a specialist unit, if you're running them the same as you do DC, then you're doing it wrong. They weren't meant to get bogged down fighting blobs of infantry, give 'em axes and set 'em loose on the enemy warlord. With Dante and a Sanguinary Priest, it turns them into :cussing monsters and a great Death Star that can easily deal with other Death Stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 And thats exactly what they are best as, besides with the cost of these marines you can't really afford to spam multiple units of Death Star Quality, certainly not in competitive points levels from 1250 to 2000 points without seriously neglecting the rest of your force unless you play unbound then its just for fun anyway as I can count tournaments where unbound is allowed on one hand. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Never ever ever ever give Sanguinary Guard axes in this edition of the game. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Never ever ever ever give Sanguinary Guard axes in this edition of the game. Ever. Eh, I agree you'll not be taking advantage of the initiative bonus, but with a SP (2+/FnP) you can shrug off some attacks, and your attacks are S6/AP2 (master-crafted) on charge, for no additional cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ran them at a tourny recently, with Dante and two libs. Totally awesome. Forget the points; nothing else can do what Dante SG can do with the right build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Danse Macabre Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ran them at a tourny recently, with Dante and two libs. Totally awesome. Forget the points; nothing else can do what Dante SG can do with the right build. Spoken like a true son of the Angel. A priest still wouldn't hurt though. ;) Personally though i wonder with them, is it better to take them in reserve dropping in or deploying and running them up the field early on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I like SG, but I'm starting to question if Van Vets are better at their job. 2+ armor versus the potential of 3+ invuls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valistan Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 <...> Forget the points; nothing else can do what Dante SG can do with the right build. But what is the right built? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I like SG, but I'm starting to question if Van Vets are better at their job. 2+ armor versus the potential of 3+ invuls. Depends what job you want them to do. 2+ is better than a 3++ against anything without AP2. The obvious place where VV shine is taking on MCs etc. Give them TH/SS and treat them like flying Hammernators. Pros: Faster, can sweeping advance, no need to buy a LR transport, Can take more flexible wargear. Cons: More vulnerable to small arms fire. More expensive per model (although you still save overall if you don't buy a LR). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Forget the points; nothing else can do what Dante SG can do with the right build. Be part of a 500+ pts unit that dies like 14 pt marines when low AP weapons looks at them funny? :P Sanguinary guard are very meta dependent, the 2+ is useful, but too easily negated by many popular units in various codex. For me SG simply aren't good enough to go in an all comers list. DC on the other hand are too good to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Power Fists are where its at. S9 on the charge is fabulous in the meta of Imperial Knights. Sang Guard work best as a Hammer unit. They need support ICs to function. DC I would run in MSUs tbh. They dont really need any support. Point them at something and let them loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Be part of a 500+ pts unit that dies like 14 pt marines when low AP weapons looks at them funny? Sanguinary guard are very meta dependent, the 2+ is useful, but too easily negated by many popular units in various codex. For me SG simply aren't good enough to go in an all comers list. DC on the other hand are too good to pass up. This pretty much sums it up. The day that 2+ saves start mattering is the day SG will actually be honest-to-goodness good. Right now there's just too much Ap2 weaponry around for them to be really worth it. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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