Fahlnor Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I was wondering if you guys thought this formation had any legs. The total slots available are 2 HQs, 10 units from Terminators/Veterans and 6 Furioso Dreadnoughts. I would really love to run an all-Terminator list but I don't quite know how viable it is. The points cost for Terminator units is really huge and the games I'm focusing on will be fairly small - say around 1,500 - 2,000 points. I was working towards a 1,650 tournament recently and was wondering if it might be possible to build a list for that using this formation? Looking at it for only ten minutes or so I ended up with this: Librarian - Mastery level 2 - Terminator armour - Storm shield - 125 Librarian - Terminator armour - Storm shield - 100 Terminator Assault Squad - 3 thunder hammer and storm shield - Land Raider Redeemer - Multi-melta - 465 Terminator Assault Squad - 3 thunder hammer and storm shield - Land Raider Redeemer - Multi-melta - 465 Furioso Dreadnought - Frag cannon - Heavy flamer - Drop Pod - 165 Furioso Dreadnought - Frag cannon - Heavy flamer - Drop Pod - 165 Furioso Dreadnought - Frag cannon - Heavy flamer - Drop Pod - 165 - 1,650 Now obviously I'm not suggesting it's the most competitive list in the world, ever. But I *am* curious if you think there's a way of building an army using the Archangels Strike Force and only bring 2+ armour saves to the party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Dont you 'have' to take 10 vet units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Dont you 'have' to take 10 vet units? Nope. The Archangels Strike Force uses an altered FOC: compulsory = 1 HQ and 2 Elites, optional = 1 HQ and 14 Elites. There is also a detachment called "The Archangels" and that does require ten units, but it's a wholly separate detachment. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Putting boots on the ground, you can hit nearly forty Terminators: Librarian - Terminator armour - Storm shield - 100 10-man Terminator Assault Squad - 5 thunder hammer and storm shield - 425 10-man Terminator Assault Squad - 5 thunder hammer and storm shield - 425 10-man Terminator Squad - 2 assault cannons - 440 6-man Terminator Squad - Assault cannon - 260 I'm sorry if I shouldn't be posting army lists in this thread. They're not so much meant to be actual lists as suggestions for how the formation might work. I'd love to think this kind of army could work, but I just can't quite convince myself! Edited for mathfail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Milkman Of Baal Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I can only really comment on running my deathwing list, it's fun but hard to play and the lack of numbers and mobility definitely puts you on the back foot, but go for it and I know I won't be the only one who would find a battle report really interestin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 I can only really comment on running my deathwing list, it's fun but hard to play and the lack of numbers and mobility definitely puts you on the back foot, but go for it and I know I won't be the only one who would find a battle report really interestin... Do you find that running bodies is more useful than running transports? Land Raiders can be hella-hard to destroy, but at the same time, all you need is a little bit of melta weaponry and *pow!*, down you go. Would this kind of all-Terminator list be better run as Dark Angels? Grey Knights? Space Wolves? Grey Knights could put more bodies on the table, for example. At the same time, 37 Terminators at 1,650 is the kind of army that most people won't be prepared for, I guess! *Sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm personally intrigued at the possibility, but I'm not convinced the army can be great. That said, there is surely some value in TH+SS Terminators as a compulsory choice, and it might make a decent allied force rather than an entire army. Edit: I forgot to mention; if I understand correctly the Archangels allow you to still take the usual BA relics.Using the relic Jump pack to deep strike your Terminators has some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Edit: I forgot to mention; if I understand correctly the Archangels allow you to still take the usual BA relics. You are correct. You get an additional 3 relics to choose from and another warlord table to roll on (though note that the command trait from the Archangels Strike Force only gives you a re-roll on the new warlord table) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Good question, and an interesting army which I hope to build one day! For this, I'd maybe consider Karlaen. The guaranteed reserve manipulation and sieze bonus are pretty good. I'd probably build the core around 10 TH/SS termies with the archangel standard, probably with a priest. I'd also consider Biomancy on the librarians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Does the formation also allow turn one reserve rolls? Slide a Damocles in and turn one deepstrikes on 2s could leave those without a lot of plasma or weight of fire in pain. edit: unfortunatly not :/ just rerolls to reserves but with a damocles and something else starting on the table and some pods you could have a pretty devastating deepstrike force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 No the archangels detachment does not. To get the T1 deepstrike, you need to field the full TDA company, I think. One thing I am upset about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Would this kind of all-Terminator list be better run as Dark Angels? Grey Knights? Space Wolves? Grey Knights could put more bodies on the table, for example. At the same time, 37 Terminators at 1,650 is the kind of army that most people won't be prepared for, I guess! I would say that this kind of list works better with Space Wolves. My reasoning here is that SW Termies are just 33 points basic because they come with power weapons rather than fists. They also have far more flexible weaponry and in particular can take combi-weapons which are awesome on DSing termies. They provide a boost of one-off firepower on the turn they land and at close range, they are just as effective as Storm bolters since the TDA gives Relentless. Take a Void Claw formation and you can reroll your Deep Strikes for the rest of the Termies as they come on. Use a CotGW detachment and you have +1WS as well as counter-charge. FC and RT are great for jump pack units but slightly less optimal for Terminators IMHO. A 5-man Wolf Guard unit with 4 combi-plas, 4 power weapons, 1 assault cannon and 1 chain fist comes in cheaper than a BA terminator squad with AssCannon and CF and is better in many circumstances. Go for power swords if you want to strike at initiative or take axes if you want a little more punch. If you expect to face a lot of AP2, you can also swap one power weapon for a free Storm Shield bod at the front to tank heavy weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Would this kind of all-Terminator list be better run as Dark Angels? Grey Knights? Space Wolves? Grey Knights could put more bodies on the table, for example. At the same time, 37 Terminators at 1,650 is the kind of army that most people won't be prepared for, I guess! I would say that this kind of list works better with Space Wolves. My reasoning here is that SW Termies are just 33 points basic because they come with power weapons rather than fists. They also have far more flexible weaponry and in particular can take combi-weapons which are awesome on DSing termies. They provide a boost of one-off firepower on the turn they land and at close range, they are just as effective as Storm bolters since the TDA gives Relentless. Take a Void Claw formation and you can reroll your Deep Strikes for the rest of the Termies as they come on. Use a CotGW detachment and you have +1WS as well as counter-charge. FC and RT are great for jump pack units but slightly less optimal for Terminators IMHO. A 5-man Wolf Guard unit with 4 combi-plas, 4 power weapons, 1 assault cannon and 1 chain fist comes in cheaper than a BA terminator squad with AssCannon and CF and is better in many circumstances. Go for power swords if you want to strike at initiative or take axes if you want a little more punch. If you expect to face a lot of AP2, you can also swap one power weapon for a free Storm Shield bod at the front to tank heavy weapons. Yeah Wolves pretty much have the loyalist terminator thing down! You can tool the squad how you want and getting WS5 is just too good. Plus Combi weapons not only look cool but are very effective too. Edit: It is a shame that can't include combi-Grav though! But Plasma will more than suffice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvious Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I wonder what a list would be like if you combined an Archangels Strike Force with a Flesh Tearers FOC. You could take squads of 5 Terminators and then put them in Fast Attack Drop pods from the Flesh Tearers side since you only need 1 troop and can have 6 fast attack slots. The result is turn one Terminators in your opponents face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I wonder what a list would be like if you combined an Archangels Strike Force with a Flesh Tearers FOC. You could take squads of 5 Terminators and then put them in Fast Attack Drop pods from the Flesh Tearers side since you only need 1 troop and can have 6 fast attack slots. The result is turn one Terminators in your opponents face. Was actually thinking about this the other night. Cheap HQ and Troops, then max out the FA with Drop Pods. Give them to an Archangels Strike Force and Pod everything in. As the command benefit of this detachment is the re-rolling of failed reserves, Karlean isn't essential but a Damocles or a Land Raider Promethius (both have a +1 to the reserve roll, the latter even being a dedicated transport for Terminators) will help out lots. The second command benefit is that a unit from the ASF detachment rolls D6 less for scatter when it arrives from Deep Strike Reserves. If it arrives in a Drop Pod from the FTSF, will it still get this benefit or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvious Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 The second command benefit is that a unit from the ASF detachment rolls D6 less for scatter when it arrives from Deep Strike Reserves. If it arrives in a Drop Pod from the FTSF, will it still get this benefit or not? I'm not sure, I would need somebody to clarify that but probably not since it's not a dedicated transport and thus the Drop Pods count as coming from the Flesh Tearers chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 It should work just fine becuase they are NOT dedicated transports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Well, they both arrive from Deep Strike Reserves but the scatter only applies to the Pod. As the Pod is from the FTSF I guess it goes the full 2D6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 But honestly scatter on pods isn't super important, you could still roll at 9+ and be too far away to do anything, or a terrible scatter off the table, but that is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gondow Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 uhm... IIRC VoidClaws get +1WS aswell, they have the same rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 From first hand experience running an all Terminator list is very fun but really hard to play when you are looking at going to a Tournament. I recently went to an 1850 Tourney. I had 26 Deathwing Terminators and an Imperial Knight (the Knight obviously being the MVP in every game). I won 1 of 5 games. The problem I had was flyers. Every army I faced had at least 1 to 2 flyers and had nothing to deal with them. I played against a nid player in one of my games. He ran 3 Flying Tyrants, 2 Crones and a Harpy. Killed the first Tyrant (they were kitted for CC and flying around doing their Psychic Scream). I did have a blast as I killed everything in his list (over 70 models) except the Flyers but in the end I had 3 Terminators left and he swooped down with his 5 flying MCs to take all the objectives. If you are thinking of going to a Tourney definitely boots on the ground > LR transports however not being able to DS Turn 1 with your Termies is an issue. At 1650 you can fit in your Libby, 3x TH/SS units, 3x Tac Termies with Cyclones and a Fragioso and have points left over to give your Libby more goodies. Start your Tac Termies on your home objectives. Cyclone missiles means they won't be useless. Fragioso drops down next a key infantry unit or opened topped transport and deletes it. 3x TH/SS Termies all drop down together on an enemy objective (choose one that's hopefully not too far from an other) and overload your opponents weaker side then hold as many objectives as you can. You gotta make sure you don't get caught up on having to chase the enemy just to kill something, play to the objectives and counter attack close units instead. Obviously this all looks good on paper but playing objectives with a full slow moving Termie army is a must. With DA LRC lists work as we have the Bolter Banner and we can give our LRs a 4++ with a Character on bike following with a Power Field Generator. We can also have a guaranteed T1 drop to play a bit more aggressively however our units are heaps more expensive. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicJ Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Its a fun list in my view. Real world play, the grav gun has killed Termie/Raider As a for fun game against a willing enemy, all termie against guard/boyz/gaunts/fire warriors it would be awesome Sternguard might be fun though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Its a fun list in my view. Real world play, the grav gun has killed Termie/Raider As a for fun game against a willing enemy, all termie against guard/boyz/gaunts/fire warriors it would be awesome Sternguard might be fun though I do love the idea of playing a full Sternguard list. Doesn't feel very Blood Angels, but still a lovely idea. You could do some ridiculous damage bringing Sternguard down in Drop Pods turn one. Also, lovely models. I'm still drawn to the idea of a 2+ army. Maybe Space Wolves are the way to go. Was considering Grey Knights as well, but I don't like the lack of storm shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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