Dealing with Wraiths

[BloodTzar]

 

Servin Loth that can tank them with his 2++ all day long

 

All day? Even with 2++, 6 Wraiths have a good shot at taking him down on the charge, and he's very unlikely to survive a second round.

 

Servin Loth is one of the most broken IC's out there, with Biomancy, he can get to T7 , FNP (even to get FnP from our priest) all the fun stuff, while still being part of the TH/SS termies he can LoS stuff he doesn't like to save ... what I mean is we can throw the death star on its own, just  to deal with dirt cheap wraiths, thank you GW...

[Jolemai]

Would an Imperial Knight deal with them suitably well?

[Ushtarador]

Would an Imperial Knight deal with them suitably well?

 

Depends on the stomps and damage rolls, his invul saves, and his 6es. Hard to say who would win, but I guess the knight has a pretty good chance on average thanks to having 6HP :) but then there are enough warscythes around too..

[Lucien Eilam]

Unit vs unit, I think Castigators and Lancers have a decent shot. Maybe touch and go for a Paladin/Errant - could be settled by who rolls the most 6s. Not sure about the other variants.

 

But a Knight costs as much as 8-10 Wraiths, and Necrons love fighting armour.

 

I still think you're better off focusing on the rest of the army. Even the best shot you can engineer, with everything going according to plan, is going to be an inefficient use of points. They're just too cheap and too tough.

 

They're not ObjSec, and they're not that killy, so most missions it's not going to come down to whether that squad lives or dies. The effort you put into those Wraiths could be crippling or destroying 2-3 other squads.

[Ushtarador]

As a reference, last game I had:

 

- Mephiston

- 2x Chapter Master w/ Power Fist

- 5x ASM

 

I got the charge and S10 on mephi and it still took 3 rounds of CC to kill 6 wraiths. It didn't matter because the only thing he had left by then was an even worse unit (lychguard with Orikan, 3+/3++ reroll all ones and 4+++), but if it had been a closer game, the best strategy would have been to just park one Clan Raukaan chapter master in the unit and keep it busy until the end of the game :)

[Golden Aegis]

In all honestly either ignore them the best you can, and kill everything else. Or simply refuse to play them at T5. My friend has done this, and wraith spam is still annoying/competitive, but can actually be dealt with. He also saves the 5 points per wraith, and we still have them ran as beasts.

[DarthOvious]

The trouble is that a unit of 6 of them cost 270 points. So when you're sticking a Chapter Master in there with another unit then those points start to stack up.

[David Ravel]

I run two vindic /w engines. In my last game against necron, in the first turn (due to bad rolls on his part) I wipe the unit clean. Of course if he is very lucky, even 2 Vindic won't do it; but if it can thin it down to one or two wraith, you can easily finish it with ''normal'' units. 

[L30n1d4s]

If we are looking at allies, then I think actually a squadron of allied Leman Russ Punishers, with max Heavy Bolters and a BA Librarian or AM Primaris Psyker casting Prescience on them, is the best anti-Wraith option there is.

 

3 Maxed out LR Punishers put out a total of 87 S5 shots at turn at 24" (or longer range, for the HBs)... with Presience cast, about 75% of these should hit, so that's an average of about 65 hits... S5 weapons vs T5 Wraiths means that half should wound, so that is an average of 32-33 wounds.... with their 3++ save, the Wraiths should suffer about 11 unsaved wounds, which means 5 dead Wraiths and one with 1W left.... pretty much threat neutralized.

 

The only issues are 1) the LR Punishers have to get within 24" to engage with their full firepower, so that isn't too much stand-off and 2) a full, 3 tank LR Punisher Squadron runs over 500 points, not to mention the required HQ and Troop Tax if you are taking an AM allied detachment.

[David Ravel]

Instead of taking 500 pts of full geared 3 Punisher I would take 3 Exterminator. For half the points (almost) it does much less dmg (2.5 unsaved W per turn of fire) but :

1) Already have twinlinked

2) Can be used to do something else (like shooting at flyers since 12 TL autocannon shots will net you around 3-4 hit; or totally shredding warriors with AP4)

3) With that range it can shoot 2-3 turn while moving backwards before the Wraiths can attack them (or their position)

 

But I guess that you could just take a blob of conscript with a priest and tarpit them for all game instead, for still half the price. 

 

Personnally I will stick with my Vindicators and no allies. 3++ is good, but it can be failed. If you are lucky you can kill 1-2 Wraith per Vindicators which is totally worth it since they move as fast backwards as the Wraiths move towards them. 

 

Or take a Knight and charge them. With two BC shot and a charge (hammer of wrath + bonus attack) resulting in a CC (Str D + stomp), you can get rid of them I'm pretty sure. 

[Shaezus]

I found vindicators to be a waste against wraiths; AP1 still needs luck to get through, and that's a S10 AP1 ordnance shot that isn't being fired at his vehicles, where it is more effective. More so considering quantum shielding.

 

Boltguns and heavy bolters are the most efficient way to deal with them, in my own experience.

[Arufel87]

They're only AP2 so not so good against vehicles... In that mass melta is a better option IMO.

[Loar]

There's some nasty combo's you can do on top of just the wraiths themselves with necrons this addition. If you are using decurian and the detachment the wraiths get a +4 RP from the spider. Now if you add Orikan into the squad with them they now have a friggin ++3 that reroll's 1s and has a +4 RP even against ID. Throw in another lord/overlord with a resurrection orb and/or solar staff and this unit is basically impossible to even hurt. Its not that hard to just slingshot the lords/orikan around and if you know you are getting charged then its not an issue.

I had my entire army shoot and charge a unit with this set up last game and during both the shooting and assault phase didn't manage to even get ONE wound on the unit. I repeat not ONE, with my ENTIRE army of heavy CC with strong short range fire high str/low ap and large dakka from other units and couldn't even wound the unit.

Its essentially two good invulnerable saves that they will always get that they can basically both reroll. The ++3 only fails if you roll a 2 or fail a reroll on a one, about 80-90ish percent of wounds regardless what or how strong are stopped right off the bat from this. Whatever 10-20sih percent of wounds go past this now have to fail a ++4 RP roll, so you have mabye half of those going through, then the second one of those is failed you can pop a res orb to reroll those failed RP's, further minimizing this to maybe 5 percent (statistically now, can easily be 0 as was my case) of wounds that you cause actually going through, REGARDLESS of Instant Death, Strength or AP! And if he pops solar stuff its not even worth caclulating, you would be dumb to even try to attack them that turn, which just gives them a free move up the board to charge you, their next turn

Large amounts of dakka works to so so results, they need to be high volume strength 5+ shots, 4 and below massive dakka only wounds on a 5 which really hampers the number of wounds getting through, and then you run into the same problem as your high str shots. And AP means nothing against them. They are pretty much the most durable infantry unit in the game with this configuration right now IMO as they don't require getting specific psychic powers or successfully casting/not being denied to get this durability. I really don't see how a normal non-tailored list can kill them. A knight with a lucky 6 on stomp can potentially do it, or other goofy stuff that removes from the table, but not much else

[Red-beard]

Even tailored lists struggle to kill them without over-commiting a large percentage of your army. 

 

That being said, I'll add that if you are fighting wraiths and they are getting RP, you're doing something wrong. Kill the spyder first and take away the RP. Otherwise, you are just asking to get beat.

[GrunTeufel]

I am getting assassins to deal with my necron troubles thats for sure. A vindicare might one shot a spider on the first turn, making most of the trouble go away.

[Morticon]

I am getting assassins to deal with my necron troubles thats for sure. A vindicare might one shot a spider on the first turn, making most of the trouble go away.

 

How?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I'm sure he just means killing the spider (rp)...

[Shaezus]

They're only AP2 so not so good against vehicles... In that mass melta is a better option IMO.

The best way of dealing with vehicles isn't the issue here. The point is, once you start using high S low AP against wraiths, you're distracting yourself.

[Shaezus]

There's some nasty combo's you can do on top of just the wraiths themselves with necrons this addition.  If you are using decurian and the detachment the wraiths get a +4 RP from the spider.  Now if you add Orikan into the squad with them they now have a friggin ++3 that reroll's 1s and has a +4 RP even against ID.  Throw in another lord/overlord with a resurrection orb and/or solar staff and this unit is basically impossible to even hurt.  Its not that hard to just slingshot the lords/orikan around and if you know you are getting charged then its not an issue.  I had my entire army shoot and charge a unit with this set up last game and during both the shooting and assault phase didn't manage to even get ONE wound on the unit.  I repeat not ONE, with my ENTIRE army of heavy CC with strong short range fire high str/low ap and large dakka from other units and couldn't even wound the unit.  Its essentially two good invulnerable saves that they will always get that they can basically both reroll.  The ++3 only fails if you roll a 2 or fail a reroll on a one, about 80-90ish percent of wounds regardless what or how strong are stopped right off the bat from this.  Whatever 10-20sih percent of wounds go past this now have to fail a ++4 RP roll, so you have mabye half of those going through, then the second one of those is failed you can pop a res orb to reroll those failed RP's, further minimizing this to maybe 5 percent (statistically now, can easily be 0 as was my case) of wounds that you cause actually going through, REGARDLESS of Instant Death, Strength or AP!  And if he pops solar stuff its not even worth caclulating, you would be dumb to even try to attack them that turn, which just gives them a free move up the board to charge you, their next turn Large amounts of dakka works to so so results, they need to be high volume strength 5+ shots, 4 and below massive dakka only wounds on a 5 which really hampers the number of wounds getting through, and then you run into the same problem as your high str shots.  And AP means nothing against them.  They are pretty much the most durable infantry unit in the game with this configuration right now IMO as they don't require getting specific psychic powers or successfully casting/not being denied to get this durability.  I really don't see how a normal non-tailored list can kill them.  A knight with a lucky 6 on stomp can potentially do it, or other goofy stuff that removes from the table, but not much else :P

Seriously, I found concentrated bolter and HB fire works. You're not wasting low AP, and you're not distracting your heavy fire from targets they are more efficient against. Besides, in my humble experience, there has been little else for small arms to target in the first few turns.

 

As red beard already said, take the spyders down first. Makes it a lot easier and you're kind of asking for trouble if you don't.

[Jolemai]

This may well be slightly off topic but, why would your Vindicator be going after their vehicles anyway? Even with a large blast you're only ever going to catch one of them anyway (as opposed to at least three which you'll then ID) and if you're fielding a Vindicator, you've likely got it flanked by something that takes on armour or have something that carries melta running behind it.

[GrunTeufel]

 

I am getting assassins to deal with my necron troubles thats for sure. A vindicare might one shot a spider on the first turn, making most of the trouble go away.

 

How?

 

 

Vindicare is ap2, ignores cover, 72" range and can use one of three rounds which you can chose from. One ignores invuls, one is 2+ poisoned and the last one is str10 against vehicles and inflicts d3 wounds against anything else. Killing dedicated buff units is much easier now with a vindicare. He is eternal warrior, 4++ and has stealth as well so he is incredibly annoying in ruins. And you know, the whole bad ass sniper thing.

[David Ravel]

I found vindicators to be a waste against wraiths; AP1 still needs luck to get through, and that's a S10 AP1 ordnance shot that isn't being fired at his vehicles, where it is more effective. More so considering quantum shielding.

 

Boltguns and heavy bolters are the most efficient way to deal with them, in my own experience.

 

I agree with you that Vindicators are not perfect : but in my normal all-around list, I don't run 200 boltguns shots to get rid of 2 teams of wraith. And since all his useful vehicle have a jink of minimum 4+, it is as useless to fire upon those. 

 

If the OP question is : ''what can I list-tailor to get rid of wraith'' then the thread is kinda useless. Just throw in the meanest thing in the game and the deal is done. What I understand is that we're trying to use what we have in a all-corner list, or integrate something useful to get rid of Wraiths and potentially other stuff. 

[Toomanyprojects]

There's some nasty combo's you can do on top of just the wraiths themselves with necrons this addition.  If you are using decurian and the detachment the wraiths get a +4 RP from the spider.  Now if you add Orikan into the squad with them they now have a friggin ++3 that reroll's 1s and has a +4 RP even against ID.  Throw in another lord/overlord with a resurrection orb and/or solar staff and this unit is basically impossible to even hurt.  Its not that hard to just slingshot the lords/orikan around and if you know you are getting charged then its not an issue. 

 

I had my entire army shoot and charge a unit with this set up last game and during both the shooting and assault phase didn't manage to even get ONE wound on the unit.  I repeat not ONE, with my ENTIRE army of heavy CC with strong short range fire high str/low ap and large dakka from other units and couldn't even wound the unit. 

 

Its essentially two good invulnerable saves that they will always get that they can basically both reroll.  The ++3 only fails if you roll a 2 or fail a reroll on a one, about 80-90ish percent of wounds regardless what or how strong are stopped right off the bat from this.  Whatever 10-20sih percent of wounds go past this now have to fail a ++4 RP roll, so you have mabye half of those going through, then the second one of those is failed you can pop a res orb to reroll those failed RP's, further minimizing this to maybe 5 percent (statistically now, can easily be 0 as was my case) of wounds that you cause actually going through, REGARDLESS of Instant Death, Strength or AP!  And if he pops solar stuff its not even worth caclulating, you would be dumb to even try to attack them that turn, which just gives them a free move up the board to charge you, their next turn

 

Large amounts of dakka works to so so results, they need to be high volume strength 5+ shots, 4 and below massive dakka only wounds on a 5 which really hampers the number of wounds getting through, and then you run into the same problem as your high str shots.  And AP means nothing against them.  They are pretty much the most durable infantry unit in the game with this configuration right now IMO as they don't require getting specific psychic powers or successfully casting/not being denied to get this durability.  I really don't see how a normal non-tailored list can kill them.  A knight with a lucky 6 on stomp can potentially do it, or other goofy stuff that removes from the table, but not much else :P

That particular formation is dependant upon the Canoptek Spyder remaining within 12" of the wraiths in order for them to have an RP roll at all. Priority target will be the Spyder. Having orikan will also greatly limit their mobility and will will mean that a lot of points are stacked up in a rather slow moving unit meaning that the rest of their army is will not exactly be numerous and you can concentrate your forces to win the game

[Drifter155]

Sternguard rapid firing hellfire rounds in to them would drop a fair few, as well as being useful vs the rest of the necrons army. With prescience assistance things look even better.

 

I still can't get my head round GW's thinking though. There is a unit that already caused enemies trouble, so they though "heh, lets up their toughness and give them a way to get back up on a 5+" Maybe they had a load of spare boxes to sell.

[Arufel87]

Even a full sternguard squad rapid firing will only drop 2 and that's without RP. Also they'd be very dead shortly after dropping down in front of a unit of wraiths.

 

I think avoidance is the only option or maybe going heavy on AA and try to pick as many as possible off before dropping some cheap units onto objectives at the end of the game.