3++ vs 4++

[Donkalleone]

I have a Question Concerning the WolfLords/WGBL.

Is buying a SS for 15pts worth it or is the 4++ enough?

I know it Ups the Chance from 50/50 but you loose one Attack which is on a HQ much cause of the high WS and makes the Unit even more costly.

 

Whats your Opinion on that?

[Targetlock]

I would say depends on the charaters other equipment but then i am no expert on this, and i usually go for the ss simply because of the visual look of it myself.

[Skallagoose]

I love the 3++, especially paired with 2+ armor.

 

The pure reason is because in a game of dice one number is actually large (1/6).

So a 4++ is a 1/2 chance of making, while a 3++ is a 2/3 chance. While this doesn't seem like a huge deal, consider this- you get attacked by guy with 4 attacks. Lets assume you are on even WS- so 2 hits go through. A power fist, so lets assume both wound. If you fail either of these you die. Mathematically you will fail 1 with a 4++, but its a fraction with a 3++. 

 

I'm not saying its always worth it- but it often is.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

If you kit them out right, you pay 0 for the Storm Shield but that's TDA only...

 

If you're looking for a combat monster, it should be an auto include. If he's just a pack buffer, maybe not as much. I will always get a 2+ with TDA or Runic Armor though.

 

End of Line

[Donkalleone]

No you pay at Least 15points for SS when purchasing TDA (On WL Its even 5 pionts more). Its an illusion that the SS for TDA HQ is free. The Dissicion is between DP , Relentness and Transportation (incl Mount) if you pick either Runic or TDA.

[Stoic Raptor]

I think you are looking at the cost on the Melee Weapons list and not the Terminator Weapons list, where it's clearly listed as a free replacement for a power weapon.  Care to elaborate on the "illusion"? Is it because of the 40-point outlay for the TDA for Wolf Lords and Battle Leaders?

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

Look who's been cheating... *points at himself*

Thanks for the clarification, Donkalleone

 

I read it like Ulfgrim had. Since I replace the PW with it and then take the KBS. Not a free shield??

 

End of Line

[Donkalleone]

You have in both Cases 2+/4++. Runic Cost 20/25 points the TDA cost 40. Runic + SS is 40 (35) too. So you wont save points purchasing TDA for a "free" SS like stated above.

[Stoic Raptor]

Look who's been cheating... *points at himself*

 

I read it like Ulfgrim had. Since I replace the PW with it and then take the KBS. Not a free shield??

 

No, that's not the issue.  It's permissible to replace the PW with the SS for free and then replace the SB with the KBS for 35 points.  That's not the problem - the issue is the 40-point initial cost of acquiring TDA in the first place.  With a character that has a WC/SS combo (or other similar melee loadout), it's honestly hard to see the benefit of TDA  over Runic (though the WC would be 5 points cheaper for TDA).  Relentless is meaningless for this character, and while Deep Strike is useful for getting into melee range, is it worth losing Sweeping Advance?

[Rasclomalum]

You DO pretty much get a free shield if you go SS/SB in TDA, which while it looks cool, would be perhaps a bit suboptimal on a Wolf Lord... they obviously need to come stock with a S6 AP3 Assault 2 24'' Fenrisian Thunderbolter.

[Baulder]

Have you considered this setup for a comparison:

 

WGBL + Armour of Russ = 2+/4++ = 85pts

WL + Runic = 2+/4++ = 125pts

 

so what you get for 40pts is +1W, +1A, +1Ld and +1WS.

 

Alternatively, consider:

 

WGBL + Runic +Shield = 2+/3++ = 90pts

WL + Runic + Shield = 2+/3++ = 140pts

 

so here the jump is 50pts to get the stats. 

 

 

Personally I always save armour of Russ for my jump pack rune priest (since they dont have access to a 4++/3++ normally, without powers).

 

Then the next buy I go for is a WGBL +Runic+shield on a TWM because you've getting closer to the stat line of the footslogging WL for the same price. Plus you get the boost to movement and smart price eternal warrior (+1T).

[SonOfThunder]

For me it depends on what the WL carries in his other hand. If you take a specialist weapon like a wolf claw, a hammer or a fist, you already lost the other attack. Now you have to either pay a bunch of points to get that attack back, or invest in a 3++. In a way, that 3++ is like buying your character an extra wound, while a second specialist weapon is like buying an extra attack. If you've already invested a lot on the WL (like a TW mount, runic armor, and a juicy specialist weapon), 15 points for the added survivability are totally worth it. If you're trying to go with a cheap, footslogger lord, a frostsword might be enough. WLs however are mostly decent when kitted for cc, so if you want cheap, I feel a utility HQ might be better.

[Donkalleone]

Btw my Weapon to go with the WL is always the Swordsvaraint either KBS or Frostfang. I think FF is way underrated for being a Helfrost weapon.

[Baulder]

I think FF is way underrated for being a Helfrost weapon.

 

agreed

 

edit: esp when on a TWM, since you get rending (which helps to offset some of the ap3'ness of it)

[Donkalleone]

 

edit: esp when on a TWM, since you get rending (which helps to offset some of the ap3'ness of it)

 

 

Its has Rending in it usual Profile too. So even without TWC you get Hellfrost + Rending at AP3.

And its Called Frostsword of the Icewolf...FF is from Ragnar

[Baulder]

very true, completely forgot about that (goes to show how often I run a WGBL or WL on foot)

[rgr_maddog]

In most of my lists, my HQ's are kitted out to best kill other HQ's. When going toe-to-toe with another HQ I generally prefer getting to roll good saves on every wound they land on me vs. getting one more chance to put another wound on them. If I'm running several HQ's, squeezing in this or that detachment, some will have different rolls and 4++ (or even 6++) is good enough. The only big exception would be for utility sake; sometimes I run wolfclaw powerfist, or power axe power sword (occasionally slipping in one of the runic varieties, but never frost) for on demand ap2 or 3 and the extra attack is bonus. With more offense and less defense, he's better suited to wiping out units than HQ's, and therefore often a 2nd HQ choice. So, is the SS worth 15 points? 1st HQ, yes. 2nd, maybe. 3rd and higher, probably not.