bigted Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I just suffered a crushing defeat against an Eldar Iyanden army. We were playing at 1850. I took a squad of 2 Wyverns, a Vanquisher, a Punisher, A CCS with 2x melta in a chimera, 2 vet squads with 3x plasma and forward sentries doctrine, 1 vet squad with 3x melta and carapace, 5 Scions with 2x hotshot volleyguns, another CCS with Straken, 2x plasma and 2x snipers and an Aegis line. He took 3 squads of 5 wraithguard with spiritseers in wave serpents, 2 wraithknights and a farseer on a jetbike. I didn't know who I would be playing so I had a lot of units that couldn't do against his insanely tough army. I only managed to kill 5 wraithguard, a wave serpent and his farseer and I was wiped out to a man. The only part of the game that went my way was Straken killing his jetbike farseer in CC (at which point Straken had been shot down to 1 wound and his whole squad was dead. It was my first time playing Eldar and now I can see why there is so much hate directed towards them! It was not particularly fun playing against a list like that in a friendly game (and my guard army's third battle!) but we had a bit of a laugh towards the end when my surviving CCS was chased up the board by a Wave Serpent that was determined to tank shock them to death! Morale is low at the moment, but I'm sure the arrival of 10 Kasrkins as reinforcements will restore the troop's faith! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 There's no such thing as defeat for the Imperial Guard, just the brief reprieve before the next wave arrives! Don't let it get you down, Eldar are a tough nut to crack - you'll get him next time. And on the plus side, at least he had a cool themed army and you were able to have a few larfs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 You're forgetting one important detail: he's playing the cowardly Eldars so in his heart he has already lost for he is not man enough to play Guard ;) Let's be honest here, the pointy ears are a strong codex and capable of some incredibly boring and effective builds such as the one you fought. Like Cyder said a tough nut to crack and the most important thing is a good time was had and you learnt from it! Perhaps it will give you some ideas for what units to add to your collection to help battle them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I gather ratlings are an effective and cheap unit against that army, but I haven't tried it myself. Plus I don't think I could bring myself to include hobbits in my force... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 My vox trooper was the last survivor, so I told him the vox called in reinforcements in his dying moments... I then congratulated him for destroying a scouting party . I might try out that Ratling idea, I could use guardsmen with sniper rifles as proxies. The only problem is cracking open those damn wave serpents and their 3+ cover save. Maybe I should put some lascannons in my vet squads? They would then get ignores cover if I ordered the squad 'Fire on my Target' right? Or perhaps when I have enough models I could include a platoon with some heavy weapon teams... I'll have to think about it so I can crush the Xenos Filth next week! I think what I need to do is pop his transports as early as possible (ideally t1) and then have enough plasma to kill any Wraithguard who approach my gunline. That leaves the problem of the two wraithknights (both of which were invisible the entire game due to him getting invisibility on 2 of his 4 psykers. What units are good at knocking out t8 6w monstrous creatures in the guard 'dex? I guess snipers would be my best bet, but I would like something that ignores cover because the Wraithknights seem to have 3+ cover saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Throwing a couple of psykers of your own into the mix might help things out. Giving your own guys re-rolls, or giving them rending (nice one the big squads that can't otherwise scratch em) against a specific target are nice little boosts. Plus it gives you a bit extra to shut down his phase. That invisibility is the real problem, you need weight of numbers to bring the thing down and busting your guys down to snap shots severely limits the number of dice you can throw around. That said... Don't forget that dead psykers can't cast invisibility! And if they're buffing the Knights, they're leaving themselves exposed. He can't cast it from inside the transports, so he has to stick his neck out. When he does, you hit him with an Eradicator blast, or a bunch of Wyvern shots. Alternatively you could just tarpit the big buggers. A bunch of conscripts with a priest can get the Knights bogged down in combat if they manage to catch it. They can't hurt it, but at least its not then killing your important stuff What AV are the Wave Serpents? Could an Eradicator scratch them? Or like you said the Ignores Cover order on heavy weapon teams with autocannons could do the trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yes, the solution to pesky cover saves is Ignores Cover as you'd expect so dish out that order to an appropriate squad and drink deep of the xenos tears. HWSs are a good target for Fire on my Target as they have more big guns to make it worthwhile but blob squads are also viable. Maybe Bring it Down might also be worth considering? Plasma is always useful against MCs, as well as snipers but buckets of dice is always a solution eventually :P Perhaps some artillery to drop some heavy damage down, with barrage you can also negate some cover issues. Invisibility is annoying, only real way of countering it is to prevent the power being cast. Since your opponent is not pulling any punches you should do the same - no need to be nice here :P The thing with Eldars is to play your game to your strengths - for Guard that's taking advantage of quantity. More models, more guns and more dice! Make sure your units work together at all times and don't get isolated as you can't compete with their mobility and tricks. Be stalwart and hold the line, good target selection is essential at all times and don't be afraid to martyr a cheap infantry squad to further the regiment. You can afford to lose some units, the foul xenos can not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoqqu Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 It's not really that he played eldars... There can be enjoyable games agains't the pointy ears but the fact that he had 2 wraithknights... Wraithlords are cool but these "larger" things (tau suits, knights, baneblades, etc) are troublesome unless you know you are going to be up agains't them and can build the list accordingly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think he's a bit of a power gamer, his list seemed pretty min/maxed and he didn't even know which craftworld his eldar were from when I asked ! He basically sprayed them red and called it a day in term of paintjob, so I think he's into the gaming aspect rather than fluff/painting. My problem is that I only have 30 guardsmen so I can't run a decent sized platoon and I'm basically forced to use my guys as vets. I think he said he was fine with proxying so maybe I could put my 5,000 points of Blood Angels to use! The armour on Wave Serpents is F12 S12 R10. I'll fiddle around with a few list ideas and see how it goes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderPirate Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yes! Proxy Space Marines as conscripts! If you wanted to fight cheese with cheese, there's a tank company army list in Imperial Armour Volume 1 2nd Edition that can give your HQ Leman Russ special ammo including one with the Instant Death rule as well as S8 and AP2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I think he's a bit of a power gamer, his list seemed pretty min/maxed and he didn't even know which craftworld his eldar were from when I asked After he rocks up and plays a list like that I think we're beyond "thinking" Yes, he's less interested in the game and more in winning, so you should approach games similarly. Otherwise neither of you are going to really enjoy the games which is a waste of everyone's time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303282-crushing-defeat-for-the-catachan-ii/#findComment-3946439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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