AfroCampbell Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Usefulness of these compared to other options? seem ok with +1 BS.... a 250 point squad puts out 30 S5 shots hitting on a 3+....... however squishy 3+ saves still.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theredknight Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hitting on 2+ you mean? And wounding on 3+ on normal marines. Stick that battlefield terrain re roll thing. Or you can have missile launchers with flak and tank hunters.. Depends on the job I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3946327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Even if HBs hit automatically, I still wouldn't take them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3949947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Even if HBs hit automatically, I still wouldn't take them. Any particular reason why? Is there more competitive options you prefer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3949994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Even if HBs hit automatically, I still wouldn't take them. Any particular reason why? Is there more competitive options you prefer? Only thing that would potentially outclass a 10 man HB IF squad is a 10 man Culverin Squad. 1 more attack per model and the potential to cause double the amount of wounds is terrifying indeed coupled with a 45" threat range. Costs more to field though. However, if you were to hand either squad a Master of Signal for +1BS, then I think the HBs statistically edge out? I don't really mathammer so I wouldn't know but BS6 Heavy Bolters sound decent. They are, however, only S5 to the Culverins S6 and since both configurations gain Tank Hunter with LA:IF, I feel that the Culverins are still better overall. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3950008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Eh, BS6 isn't really much; 30 shots = 24 hits with BS5, with BS6 is 25 hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3950128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Eh, BS6 isn't really much; 30 shots = 24 hits with BS5, with BS6 is 25 hits. Yeah, thought so.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3950416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The problem with giving heavy support squads anti-infantry weapons is that your wasting their Tank Hunters advantage over the other legions, they should be armed with lascannons or missile launchers to nuke vehicles and MCs from afar, even Autocannons would be better. If you wanted Anti-Infantry then Quad Heavy Bolters would be nice but I think Thudd guns are better due to their versatility. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3950432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Even if HBs hit automatically, I still wouldn't take them. Any particular reason why? Is there more competitive options you prefer? I just don't find St5, RoF3, AP4 and a 36" range sufficiently impressive. It's not so great at killing Marines. (Even if they all hit, that would only work out to 6ish wounds/turn.) And they can't touch most vehicles. I'd rather use the points and the HS slot on something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3950532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 People need to start thinking about killing things other than marines..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Not really. 30k is the legions acting as the major players. That is the very purpose of it. And what works against Marines works against lesser foes; and Heavy Bolters still dont put the punch into Admech Thallaxi equivalents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 The paradox of the setting is that the Legions were designed, trained and equipped to fight lesser foes - against which bolters, HBs, and so forth are good. But in the heresy they fought other marines, against which all those items are poor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Upgrading those weapon to AP3/2 weaponary makes them far more effective against all enemeies, yes, but the reduced rate of fire is going to result far less dead bodies. Against armies which are going to be able to out number the Legion substantially people will need to start thinking about handling horde armies or they will simply not be able to kill everything quick enough. While Solar Auxilia is giving people a taste of it, keep in mind that SA is considered the Elite version of Imperial Army at this stage; expect the realy IA to be even more infantry heavy with many more bodies. With that aside, thankfully our player group doesnt write lists based on efficiency and math hammer, we write lists because they feel fun and fluffy, it gets quite boring running the same list over and over again because that is the optimum sort of weapon to take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 With that aside, thankfully our player group doesnt write lists based on efficiency and math hammer, we write lists because they feel fun and fluffy, it gets quite boring running the same list over and over again because that is the optimum sort of weapon to take. This isn't directly personally at you or your group (mostly), but I'm getting kind of sick with people thinking or insinuating that they're somehow better people because they refuse to optimize their lists. While I can very well choose whatever unit I want, you're dealing with the Tactics section, where people are asking what's the best way to make use of X-Y-Z. There are clear front running powerful legions; Iron Hands, and Raven Guard are top tier, with Imperial Fists, Alpha Legion, Sons of Horus, Salamanders and Night Lords in close second (some more build dependent) so far. Comparing those to Emperor's Children, World Eaters or Death Guard is kind of unfair, but at the same time, being able to optimize does not somehow make you a bad person. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; refusing to optimize because you think you're 'being fluffy' is utterly ridiculous, and doesn't make you the new Gandhi. Please stop making posts like this, as they're not only incorrect, but incredibly self aggrandizing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully ad Bellum Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Nothing wrong with optimizing...within your legion's particular idiom.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flint13 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Folks, the OP asked for advice and opinions on Heavy bolters, not a debate over who is "right" between fluffy vs opti list building. Keep it on topic, please and thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I've said it before, and I'll say it again; refusing to optimize because you think you're 'being fluffy' is utterly ridiculous, and doesn't make you the new Gandhi. Please stop making posts like this, as they're not only incorrect, but incredibly self aggrandizing. Nor does copying someone's mathhammer list from the internet make you General Patton. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dono1979 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 With that aside, thankfully our player group doesnt write lists based on efficiency and math hammer, we write lists because they feel fun and fluffy, it gets quite boring running the same list over and over again because that is the optimum sort of weapon to take. This isn't directly personally at you or your group (mostly), but I'm getting kind of sick with people thinking or insinuating that they're somehow better people because they refuse to optimize their lists. While I can very well choose whatever unit I want, you're dealing with the Tactics section, where people are asking what's the best way to make use of X-Y-Z. There are clear front running powerful legions; Iron Hands, and Raven Guard are top tier, with Imperial Fists, Alpha Legion, Sons of Horus, Salamanders and Night Lords in close second (some more build dependent) so far. Comparing those to Emperor's Children, World Eaters or Death Guard is kind of unfair, but at the same time, being able to optimize does not somehow make you a bad person. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; refusing to optimize because you think you're 'being fluffy' is utterly ridiculous, and doesn't make you the new Gandhi. Please stop making posts like this, as they're not only incorrect, but incredibly self aggrandizing. I am glad that our local group play the way that they do so that there isnt much conflict in play style or list writing. I think that your response would have been far more effective without the little section at the end which effectively insulted people in the same way in which you percieved to be getting insulted. Each play their own way and enjoy the game in different ways, my apologies if you took my comment to be an insult towards you and your method. To the OP - As I have already provided some feedback in regards to possible effectiveness and reasons to stick with the Heavy Bolters I wont reiterate them, however a lot of things would help determine if there were better options. For example if you already had 6 x 20 man tactical squads all armed with Bolters, then a squad of ten Heavy Bolters would probably not be bringing much to the party at all, so would more inclined to lean towards some heavier hitting weapons rather than horde control. I've found Heavy Bolters to be quite fun and useful to use, especially in conjunction with an Apothecary with the Scanner. Being able to fire 30 Heavy Bolter shots at a Deep Striking unit is quite gratifying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3952521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Late to the party. From a strict unit comparison it's 2+, 3+, vs 3+, 2+. So to hit, to wound is a wash. You're losing ap4 and spending 40% more points for 33% more dice, range, damage vs av12 and deflagerate. I'd say they're pretty well balanced and the only choice in it is fluff and how much guard/av12 is in your meta. If you're not IF take the volkite. I prefer tactical support squads with volkites - slightly less offense but almost twice the wounds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303287-if-heavy-bolter-heavy-support-squads/#findComment-3953297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.