Dual wielding pistol sergeants

[Rizara]

Ok, so we apparently can create some dual wielding pistol sergeants, and I know it seems to be a popular idea, especially for the 5 man drop pod melta assault squads.    But over the weekend, someone mentioned at my gaming store that you can't shoot two pistols a turn unless the model has a rule for it.   I know the seraphim for sisters have that rule, and I know cypher had that rule, but if we can't shoot two pistols, why invest so many points just to make a cool looking model.   

 

Only wondering cause I was thinking of taking one of the melta assault drop pod squads but if we can't use two shots from an inferno pistol, it makes it a bit more cost effective to just take a combi melta for the turn down.   If they get more shots in later rounds, then great, but usually a small squad that drops in with 3 meltas in it will get the one shot to pop a tank, and will probably be focused fired next round.    However if we can shoot two pistols then it makes sense to go with the two inferno pistols or even having tac sergeants with twin heavy flamers. 

 

Anyways, wanted to get your opinions battle brothers.  

[Bryan Blaire]

Gunslinger: If you have two pistols, you can shoot both in one turn (Warhammer 40,000 The Rules, pg 42).

[Karhedron]

Gunslinger is now a generic rule for any model armed with 2 pistol weapons. You do not need the rule to fire 2 pistols, you get the rule from having 2 pistols. In practice, not many models have access to it but BA sergeants are among them.

[Lucumon]

Isnt in the rulebook that all models with 2 pistols has the gunslinger rule?

[Charlo]

We can shoot both of them in the same turn, it's under the gunslinger rules: a model armed with two pistols can shoot them both in the shooting phase

[Rizara]

Thanks guys, so yeah tried looking up gunslinger in the codex and it isn't listed as its own rule, it is a sub rule of pistols in general. Would explain why I couldn't find anything about shooting twice under our rules. Thanks a ton, that changes thins, let the rule of cool commence, all hail our gun slinger sergeants

[DarthOvious]

Can I ask another question about this? If we look at the wargear page it says the following.

 

"A model may replace its bolt pistol and/or Melee weapon with one of the following:"

 

I have people in my gaming group, one of which is a Space Wolf player and so it applies to him also that says this indicates that we are only allowed to take one pistol of the same type. i.e. My Tactical Sergeant can have one hand Flamer but is not allowed to have two.

 

How do others interpretate this rule?

[Lucumon]

Can I ask another question about this? If we look at the wargear page it says the following.

 

"A model may replace its bolt pistol and/or Melee weapon with one of the following:"

 

I have people in my gaming group, one of which is a Space Wolf player and so it applies to him also that says this indicates that we are only allowed to take one pistol of the same type. i.e. My Tactical Sergeant can have one hand Flamer but is not allowed to have two.

 

How do others interpretate this rule?

Notice how it says "one" and not "only one".

 

Also, it could be interpreted that the singular bolt pistol can be exchanged for 'one' of the following... so both the pistol and melee weapon can be exchanged for 'one' each.

[Jolemai]

Um, what?

 

 

Option one

 

A model may replace his bolt pistol with [insert pistol]

 

And

 

A model may replace his melee weapon with [insert pistol]

 

Result = two pistols, no restrictions on what.

 

 

Option two

 

A model may replace his bolt pistol or his melee weapon with [insert pistol]

 

Result = bolt pistol & [insert pistol] or [insert pistol] and melee weapon.

 

***

 

How can this be contrived in another manner?

 

EDIT: Hmm, ninja'd.

[DarthOvious]

Um, what?

 

 

Option one

 

A model may replace his bolt pistol with [insert pistol]

 

And

 

A model may replace his melee weapon with [insert pistol]

 

Result = two pistols, no restrictions on what.

 

 

Option two

 

A model may replace his bolt pistol or his melee weapon with [insert pistol]

 

Result = bolt pistol & [insert pistol] or [insert pistol] and melee weapon.

 

***

 

How can this be contrived in another manner?

 

EDIT: Hmm, ninja'd.

 

So what does the inclusion of and/or mean within that sentence. Does this indicate that you can exchange the bolt pistol and melee weapon for one pistol?

 

Just asking. I play in a GW store so perhaps I should also check the ruling with the staff to see what they say.

[frozenjordan]

and/or

phrase of and

1. 
   
   
   

   
   

   1.

   
   

   
   

   
   

   either or both of two stated possibilities.

   
   

   "audio and/or video components"

   
   

    

   
   

    

   
   

   The key to understanding it is either or both. Hope that's correct/also makes sense.

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   
   
   
   

[Ovidius Incertus]

Not to dog pile this into an OR thread, but having 2 pistols would also count as having 2 CCW for the purposes of determining attacks, correct?

[frozenjordan]

In Close combat pistols count as pistol whipping funzies so you would be correct I believe.

[Rizara]

yep, so taking two pistols still means they get an extra attack in close combat for having to melee weapons even though these melee weapons are still ranged.    It would just be nice if plasma, inferno, and hand flamers would have a modefied AP value for the fact that when firing in close quarters, the barrels may still be hot, especially since the plasma fires energy equivalent to the son, and the flamer and melta are both really hot weapons, one being fire, the other steam, so the barrels would still be hot so should at least have an AP of 6 in melee cause open flesh or just plain old cloth would get burned or singed with ease.   Just saying, it would be nice if the rules guys took some of the physics into account for some of the little details not normally seen in the rules.  

[DominicJ]

I would say 2 pistols

But a valid reading could be you can swap your bolt pistol and chainsword for a plasma pistol

That would be foolish to do, but that could be what it says.

 

I don't think it means that

[Xenith]

I would say 2 pistols

But a valid reading could be you can swap your bolt pistol and chainsword for a plasma pistol

That would be foolish to do, but that could be what it says.

 

I don't think it means that

 

No, youre right. You can do that if you want. As you say, it would be dumb, but it is still an option.

[Helias_Tancred]

Tell that barracks room rules lawyer to go pound some sand (of Baal) because my brother YOU ARE LEGIT!

 

 

One of my two assault squad sergeants is a gunslinging double infernus pistol wielding slag slinger.

[DarthOvious]

Fair enough, I'll talk to him about it. It benefits him as well since he is a Space Wolf player with the same wording in his book. I'll see what the shop staff say as well since they need to act as deciders during disagreements.

[Leonaides]

Doesnt matter what the shop staff say- its in the rules and very very clear.

[DominicJ]

Doesnt matter what the shop staff say- its in the rules and very very clear.

 

Well, in theory yes, in practice no, anyone telling a blue shirt they're wrong and to buzz off is unlikely to remain playing in store for long.

Accept for now, calmly explain your interpretation,

Given the horrific cost of pistols, its hardly an extreme advantage

[frozenjordan]

Well you can be nice about telling them they are wrong and show them the rules to clarify.

 

Not every GW employee knows the rules 100%. But do what you want.

[Shaezus]

Agh. Grammatica! Hate it!

 

Gunslinger sarge kicks it; take one and enjoy, lots.

[DarthOvious]

Well you can be nice about telling them they are wrong and show them the rules to clarify.

 

Not every GW employee knows the rules 100%. But do what you want.

 

To be fair they know that they can get it wrong sometimes. I will show them the rules and see how they interpretate it. The reason why I will ask them is cause I don't want to make up a model if I can't use it in the store. Although I'm sure they would let me use the model still but just use it as a counts as sort of thing.

[CastellanDeMolay]

"A model may replace its bolt pistol and/or Melee weapon with one of the following:"

 

I read this as: 

"A Model may replace its bolt pistol with one of the following, and it may replace its Melee weapon with one of the following:"

You trade a single weapon for a single pistol. 

 

I can see how someone would read it: 

"no more than one of the following" 

but that doesn't really make sense within the context of the "and/or" option. Why would you trade two weapons for one pistol? Why would the writers even give you that option? 

[Urauloth]

I don't want to make up a model if I can't use it in the store.

 

With something as expensive as dual pistols I'd recommend magnets, codex grammar argument or not.