Riot Earp Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Know any changes about Lord Inquisitor Hector Rex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3957353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I really want an Ordinance Tyrant army with max barrage weapons. He is probably the best(and only) reason to get vrak 2nd ed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 My email: IA13 and Vraks Rules Problems Imperial Armor 13 and Siege of Vraks: Second Edition Rules Questions February 2015 Dear Forgeworld, I am a proud Renegade and Heretics and Chaos Space Marines player who has purchased all of your Vraks books, the IA13 collector’s edition, and the Vraks second edition. However, I have spent the last several months facing many rules problems, typos, and ommissions that have popped up in these publications. I have discussed these problems with other players on major online communities and have compiled the following list of questions, which I hope you will address so that I can share them online. I have heard that you are currently working on FAQs and errata for these books, so I hope that this rather comprehensive list will ensure that you do not miss any problems when you ultimately release the FAQs. 1) The Arch Demagogue devotions state that an Arch Demagogue with a devotion must be the army’s warlord. This creates numerous problems considering that 7th edition allows for armies to contain multiple detachments of the same or different factions. I have heard of several other players who e-mailed Forge World and were told to ignore this requirement, and that any Arch Demagogue may take devotions and doesn’t have to be the Warlord. However, as it stands, the requirement raises the following concerns/questions: -How does the Arch Demagogue Warlord requirement work when your army contains other characters that must also be the army’s warlord (for example, Abbadon)? -How does this rule work when the Renegades & Heretics detachment is an Allied Detachment? -If you take more than one Renegades & Heretics detachment (for example, one Combined Arms and one Formation), with two different Arch Demagogues, do you select among the Arch Demagogues to determine the warlord (as per the Warlord/Primary Detachment selection rules in the main rulebook)? -Related to the above question and the apparent limitations regarding Warlord/Arch Demagogue requirements, it is hard to believe that Renegades and Heretics players are punished by being the only army/faction in all of Warhammer 40,000 that can only ever field one detachment in an overall army list (which may be comprised of multiple detachments). It would be more simple and convenient to remove the mandatory warlord requirement, instead replacing it with the following errata: “If selecting a Renegades and Heretics detachment as your army’s primary detachment, only the Arch Demagogue may be the Warlord. Any Arch Demagogue devotions or covenants only affect that Arch Demagogue’s own detachment.” -If Forge World’s preferred solution is to simply remove the mandatory Warlord requirement and even to allow more than one Arch Demagogue per R&H detachment (as has been stated in some FW email responses I have seen shared online), does this mean that a particular R&H detachment may benefit from more than one Arch Demagogue devotion, so long as the player is willing to purchase additional Renegade Command Squads and additional Arch Demagogue devotions? (If yes, this would explain why the Renegade Command Squad is a 1+ entry, since otherwise buying additional Renegade Command Squads would be almost pointless save for the ability to stick an extra command vox net or banner in the squad). 2) The additional model costs seem off for several Renegades & Heretics entries and appear to be copy-pasted incorrectly. For example, on pg. 157 in IA13, the Renegade Marauder Squad costs 55 points base for 5 models – essentially 10 per model and 5 for the included champion upgrade. It therefore naturally costs +10 points for each additional Marauder. However, in some subsequent unit entries in the following pages, the additional model cost stays at +10 points even for squads that are priced very differently. In particular, 5 Renegade Disciples and 5 Renegade Infantry Veterans both cost 35 points for 5 models – in the case of the Disciples, this includes a built-in champion upgrade. This would indicate a cost of 6 points per Disciple and 7 points per Veteran. However, the additional model cost for both units is a hefty 10 points each. Is this a typo? 3) The Renegade Chaos Spawn can only ever be taken as Troops (if unlocked), so why are they listed under the Elites section? It seems these should be under Troops, as is the case with Plague Zombies. 4) Is it a mistake that chaos sigils and vox nets are lumped into the same upgrade category/restrictions as special weapons for Renegade squads? Unit in other armies are typically not forced to pick between special weapons versus morale/leadership purchases in their “per X models in the squad” upgrades. 5) Many of the weapons entries are missing, even the ones that are not listed as being referenced to exclusively in other books. 6) In the Renegade Infantry Veteran unit, there appears to be a typo – the squad’s champion is referred to by two different labels (Veteran Champion, Renegade Champion). 7) The Infernal Relic rule in IA13 does not appear to have been written correctly so as to function within the 7th edition detachment system. Specifically, it does not address what happens when taking an Infernal Relic in a detachment that is neither selected as the army’s Primary detachment but is also not an Allied type of detachment (Combined Arms, Formations, The Purge, etc.). Currently, because these units can be selected normally as per the stamps (Heavy Support, etc.) in IA13, and because the Infernal Relic rule simply states that “The following rules apply” and then only imposes selection limitations on Primary and Allied detachments and mentions no other types, technically this means that any other type of detachment can take these units normally with no limits (clearly not the intent). Furthermore, the rule for Primary detachments also intrinsically does not make sense – army lists (including all of an army’s detachments and the units they contain) and point values are set prior to beginning a game. During game set-up, a player chooses the character to be the army’s Warlord – that character’s detachment then becomes the Primary Detachment. The current wording/rule incorrectly reverses the order, as detachments are composed prior to determining a Warlord/Primary (which can change from game to game in a tournament). In my area, we have done the following with the Infernal Relic rule: the Allied Detachment rule stays the same, but the Primary Detachment limitation is changed to say “In any type of Detachment other than an Allied Detachment” and the Warlord component is removed. In other words, Combined Arms and other types of detachments all always face the same restriction: they can take one Infernal Relic normally, but if the detachment contains one or more of the appropriate HQ choices, the detachment may contain more than one Infernal Relic (reflecting that these detachments types are more substantial than smaller Allied Detachments, and could be selected as the Primary Detachment). Is this an appropriate solution for the Infernal Relic rule? 8) Can a player fielding a The Purge Formation select both Chaos Space Marines as well as Renegades and Heretics units within the same detachment/formation, or must each The Purge Formation be exclusively comprised of units from one or the other? 9) The Vraksian Renegades list includes the option to take Renegade Marauders if no covenant is chosen for the Arch Demagogue, but the entry for this unit appears to be missing from the book. Is this omission an error? 10) On a loyalist note, is the Vraks Second Edition book supposed to omit the Imperial Air Navy Support Squadron entry? 11) In the IA13 Legacies of Ruin entries, there appear to be four “Vessel” upgrades tied to each of the four chaos deities, plus a fifth entry that appears to be a daemon themed around Chaos Undivided (Auloth the Primordial Iterator). However, that upgrade’s rule refers to the Icon of Wrath (related to Nurgle, and already included in one of the other upgrades). Is Auloth the Primordial Iterator supposed to instead refer to the Icon of Vengeance (the generic Chaos Icon)? 12) In IA13, there seems to be a typo on p.152- it should refer to an Arch Demagogue and not a Demagogue. 13) Is it an error that a Renegade Command Squad can only ever purchase one special weapon and one heavy weapon, as opposed to 1 per 5 models as with most other units in the army list? 14) The Master of the Horde devotion states that eliminated Renegade Infantry Squads that are “returned to play” go into Reserves. Is this supposed to state that they go into “ongoing Reserves?” In other words, are the units returned to play meant to automatically return the following turn, or do they have to do reserves rolls to come in on turns 2 and 3? 15) When using the Master of the Horde devotion in a Combined Arms Detachment (which grants troop units Objective Secured), do eliminated Renegade Infantry Squads that are “returned to play” (minus any transports) retain the Objective Secured benefit? Or do they lose it because they were not the original units “purchased” in the detachment, despite being otherwise identical to the destroyed Renegade Infantry Squads they replace? 16) Is the squad-wide Carapace Armor upgrade for the Renegade Command Squad meant to include the squad’s Arch Demagogue? Currently it only covers the Disciples, and the Arch Demagogue has to pay an additional cost to also get the same armor. 17) I have heard from others who have emailed Forgeworld that the Power Drill uses the same stats and rules as the Lascutter: STR - 9, AP-2, TYPE - MELEE, UNWIELDY, CUMBERSOME (A model using a weapon with the Cumbersome rule can only ever make a single attack at WS 1 in any Assault phase, regardless of their profile or any other bonus or special rule). Is this correct? 18) The Vraks Daemon Lord entries for Nurgle and Khorne are identical for those in IA13 except that the onerous 25% point maximum requirement is removed. Will there be errata removing this requirement from the IA13 Daemon Lords entries as well? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 That a good list, but make sure you also include the Giant chaos spawn(should be csm) and spined beast(should be CD) being mixed up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 That a good list, but make sure you also include the Giant chaos spawn(should be csm) and spined beast(should be CD) being mixed up. Never heard about that one before. ALready sent off the email since I'd waited for a few days already for feedback. Hopefully they already know about that problem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
disease Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Lagrath, that is excellent - there was one other error I noticed in IA13 - the chaos giant spawn and spined beast are quoted for the wrong codexes. The spined beast in the past was always affiliated with the demons, and the spawn with chaos. As it is currently written, if a csm player were to take a spined beast, he would also require the demon book to use any upgrades. This also conflicts with what is published in apocalypse (where the giant spawn is a csm choice). In other words, someone made a mistake. Spined beast belongs with demons, and the giant spawn go with chaos marines. I also hate the lord of war restrictions on greater demons - makes no sense when my opponents have titans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Lagrath, that is excellent - there was one other error I noticed in IA13 - the chaos giant spawn and spined beast are quoted for the wrong codexes. The spined beast in the past was always affiliated with the demons, and the spawn with chaos. As it is currently written, if a csm player were to take a spined beast, he would also require the demon book to use any upgrades. This also conflicts with what is published in apocalypse (where the giant spawn is a csm choice). In other words, someone made a mistake. Spined beast belongs with demons, and the giant spawn go with chaos marines. I also hate the lord of war restrictions on greater demons - makes no sense when my opponents have titans Ya, what he said, I should never do quick posts Also the greaters imo don't do that much to justified their point cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 A bunch of stuff in CSM, IA13, and Vraks doesn't justify their points cost, but sadly that's a separate issue with GW and FW beyond FAQing... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well written email. Hopefully you get a response soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3958370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGibs Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 were there any rule changes to zhufor or any of the other CSM characters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3959093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Zhufor got 10 points cheaper Necrosius is basically the same (aka still sucks :-( ) The alpha legion guy is basically the same except his WL trait is now you get-pick table side, but auto-lose go-first roll, but can re-roll seize. All are CSM only now, booooo Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3959265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 FW response this morning: Thanks for sending in your questions. We have forwarded them to our rules team for their consideration as there are some issues that we can not answer ourselves without consulting them first. Once we have their answers we will pass them on to you. If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us.Regards, Forge World Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3960812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 At least they acknowledge that some rules are broked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3960984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Il be honest i was considering going mono nurgle with my csm again as it seems to be the only way to run a fun fluffy list that can do ok. This purge detachment is making it even more tempting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3966122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Is Necrosius the same as at this link? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/c/Characters.pdf. I could have sworn he was in IA 13 but turns out he isn't, and I don't have the new Vraks yet. Dragonlover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3978876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 No he isn't. I have the new book - he is basically the same as before, except that his witchfire seems slightly better and his warlord trait is that you can let you take Plague Zombies from IA:Vraks as non-compulsory troops. (The ones from Vraks are not 0-1). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3978882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Cato Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 No he isn't. I have the new book - he is basically the same as before, except that his witchfire seems slightly better and his warlord trait is that you can let you take Plague Zombies from IA:Vraks as non-compulsory troops. (The ones from Vraks are not 0-1). Oh thats cheeky. I believe renegade plague zombies are better than Typhus's. I'll have to check. Sounds like a little bit of a buff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3978919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagrath Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 No he isn't. I have the new book - he is basically the same as before, except that his witchfire seems slightly better and his warlord trait is that you can let you take Plague Zombies from IA:Vraks as non-compulsory troops. (The ones from Vraks are not 0-1). Oh thats cheeky. I believe renegade plague zombies are better than Typhus's. I'll have to check. Sounds like a little bit of a buff. Yeah it's quite nice. But FW can still ruin things with a wacky FAQ to the Zombie Mob. I would wait before ordering 200 zombies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3978925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 No he isn't. I have the new book - he is basically the same as before, except that his witchfire seems slightly better and his warlord trait is that you can let you take Plague Zombies from IA:Vraks as non-compulsory troops. (The ones from Vraks are not 0-1). Oh thats cheeky. I believe renegade plague zombies are better than Typhus's. I'll have to check. Sounds like a little bit of a buff. Yeah it's quite nice. But FW can still ruin things with a wacky FAQ to the Zombie Mob. I would wait before ordering 200 zombies. I just use my cultist as count as, their a horde of fanatic mindless cannon fodder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303306-siege-of-vraks-second-edition/page/2/#findComment-3979032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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