Help Me Slips you are my only hope! - IF lists

[AfroCampbell]

I want an army with some oommff to it! an army list that has some power to it!

I cannot find a way for the Rite of War (Stone Gauntlet) to really bring a very powerful list to the table....

here is what I got so far, but i am completely open to any suggestions.

 

HQ X2

Sigismund 230pts 

Alexis Polux 165pts – Rite of War The Stone Gauntlet makes him toughness 5/3++

May also deep strike any one unit (even with Rite of War).

 

TROOPS X3

Phalanx Warder 14 man squad  3x Power Axes + AA on sarge  Vexilla  

 + Apothecary w/ Augery Scanner

 

 

Breacher Seige Squad

10 marines  2x graviton guns  Vexilla Arty Armour Power Weapon on sarge

+ Apothecary w/ Augery Scanner 5pts <50pts>

 

 

Tactical Squad 10 men

 160pts

Dedicated transport Rhino – 35pts

 

 

ELITES X2 (apothecary already above)

 

Legion Terminator Squad x8 + 8 Storm Shields and 1x Thunder Hammer 

 

 

HEAVY SUPPORT X2

 

Sicaran Venator + HB sponsons 

 

 

Deredeo Pattern Dread + Ailios Missile Launcher 

 

 

 

2135

 

Was thinking of a 2.5k list

 

 

Do i want termies or templar brethren!?!?!?

what do people think of heavy supp HB squads?

other good options?

[Slips]

Few Ideas:

 

Deredeo with AC or Plasma but with the +1 Invulnerable Bubble thing; Antomantic Pavise I think its called. Keep him close to Sigismund so he has a 3++

 

Scrap the 10 Man Tac Blob for Templars with Combat Shields (the 5++ in CC becomes 4++ and they gain a flat 5 or 6++ Assuming theyre in range of the Shielderedeo). Melta Bombs if you can spare it. They also benefit from the RoW with Combat Shields, I think...?

 

Maybe Swap out the Venator for a LR Phobos. Stick Templar, Siggiy and Polux into it, have the Shielderedeo Walk behind it lobbing Heavy 4 Plasma without Gets Hot! at stuff (or the 5" blast with Gets Hot!) to soften Targets up while the LR does LR things. Coincidentally, your LR with also get an invulnerable too?

 

If theres flyers, 2 Deredeos with H4 S8 Ap4 Sunder + S6 Ap3 and H4 S7 AP2 should be enough to give them a tough time.

 

Deepstrike the Terminators somewhere; maybe swap the thunderhammer for 1-2 Chain Fists to screw over Av14.

 

I think you can fit all this in the list with, at most, having to cut out a few of the extra Warders. Use the Breachers and Warders as Back-to-Mid field objective holders/cappers.

 

You should have decent punch this way...

 

Edit: Oh Forgot, with Polux and Sigismund together, when they charge, Sigismund grants +1 Initiative to his unit (not to mention the TB's Furious Charge) which means Polux, on the Charge, can swing his Power Fist at I6.

[AfroCampbell]

It seems a waste to have a 420point unit as a back field holder... (Warder Squad...) maybe I should do something about that?

[Praefectus Invictus]

Where did the rules for the Deredeo plasma arms come from?

[Slips]

The weekender.

 

 

 

 

The Plasma Deredeo with the +1 Invulnerable bubble is also something worth consideration - especially for units that wouldn't normally have an invulnerable or have a weaker one.

 

Granted, its still sacrificing a HS option that could be better used in an AA/AT role and will be at a much higher risk of getting annihilated due to how close it'll potentially be.

 

Then again, its dishing out Heavy 4 Plasma Shots without Gets Hot! or a Heavy 1 5" Plasma Shot with Gets Hot! and a 4++ instead of the usual 5++.

 

 

Consider Deredeos at the very least...

 

Where is this Plasma Deredeo you speak of?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3943013

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3943488

Here you go.

 

It seems a waste to have a 420point unit as a back field holder... (Warder Squad...) maybe I should do something about that?

Not necessarily. Since they're still breachers they're more of a defensive unit - they just have a CC edge over standard Breachers. They still suffer from the -1" to charge distance and all that. Just use them slightly more aggressively than normal Breachers.

[Carlson793]

 

The weekender.

 

 

 

The Plasma Deredeo with the +1 Invulnerable bubble is also something worth consideration - especially for units that wouldn't normally have an invulnerable or have a weaker one.

 

Granted, its still sacrificing a HS option that could be better used in an AA/AT role and will be at a much higher risk of getting annihilated due to how close it'll potentially be.

 

Then again, its dishing out Heavy 4 Plasma Shots without Gets Hot! or a Heavy 1 5" Plasma Shot with Gets Hot! and a 4++ instead of the usual 5++.

 

Consider Deredeos at the very least...

Where is this Plasma Deredeo you speak of?

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3943013

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303013-horus-heresy-weekender-2015-news-book-v-tempest/?p=3943488

Here you go.

Hey Slips, do you know if we ever got a pic showing the Deredeo option costs? Every pic I've seen has the right edge with the costs cut off.

[Slips]

I think they were purposefully taken out of frame to avoid any legal issues from GW/FW. Then again, even the pictures on 4chan for it don't have the points listed. Until more surface, I don't think there are any pictures with the points costs, sadly.

[jeremy1391]

Bulk out the breachers and warders, ensure they have Vexillas.

 

Give the tac squad a vexilla.

 

Add more firepower!

 

There is no real sense in running Sigusmund and Pollux, pick one or the other.

 

Add a spartan with ceramite and flare shield to carry either Pollux (or sigusmund) and warders to your target

 

Something like this should get you some good mileage :)

 

Alexis Polux (IF) 165

 

2 Apothecarion Detachment: 2× augury scanner 100

8 Terminator Squad: 8× vigil pattern storm shield (IF) (Cataphractii); thunder hammer; cataphractii terminator armour 355

 

10 Tactical Squad: legion vexilla 160

• Rhino 35

20 Breacher Siege Squad: 4× graviton gun; legion vexilla 400

 

20 Phalanx Warder Squad (IF): 3× power axe, vexilla; Sergeant (power fist; artificer armour) 475

 

Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield 340

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: armoured ceramite; heavy bolter sponsons 230

 

deredo dreadnought: Armored ceramite, twin linked heavy bolter, aiolos missile launcher, anvils auto cannon battery 240

 

2,500 points

[Marshal Reinhard]

I think they were purposefully taken out of frame to avoid any legal issues from GW/FW. Then again, even the pictures on 4chan for it don't have the points listed. Until more surface, I don't think there are any pictures with the points costs, sadly.

 

You just need to look hard enough

[Sully ad Bellum]

Whichever squad has Pollux in it doesn't really need a vexilla, does it?

[Slips]

Whichever squad has Pollux in it doesn't really need a vexilla, does it?

Redundancy in all matters morale in 30k is never a bad thing in my books.

 

Unless you have fearless.

[Sully ad Bellum]

Yeah, but choosing whether to pass a morale check seems better. And now he has an extra 15 points to spend elsewhere.

[AfroCampbell]

hmmm yea ... im not convinced on the rite of war. its very good at one thing: breachers! 

but its not very great for much more and restricts deepstriking which sucks really bad lol.

[Sully ad Bellum]

Very true. According to the Index Astartes, the Imperial Fists during the Crusade and the Heresy were "an inflexible formation" whose excellent overall planning "coupled with the unshakeable determination of the individual Fists" made them equally valuable at blocking enemy breakthroughs as assaulting static defenses. The structure of the Legion demonstrated the legion's inflexibility: "each company had an identical organization and Company Commanders tended to be unimaginative."

 

True, this is just the Index Astartes, and subsequent materials indicate the Fists were somewhat more flexible. But it might be helpful to bear this inflexible, stubborn - pedantic, even - nature of the Fists in mind when crafting a Fists list. Their legion traits certainly seem to me to be geared for it.

 

How committed are you to playing the Fists? If you want more flexibility, but still want access to, say, Templar Brethren, maybe you should consider Alpha Legion.

[AfroCampbell]

No i dont want 'flexibility' as such, just commenting that the IF RoW is great, but a one-trick pony.

I am a committed IF player!

[Sully ad Bellum]

According to lore, the Fists *are*, as a legion, a one-trick pony. It's just a very, very good trick.

 

Fortunately, the game allows you more Rites from which to choose. I can't really advise you, though; my 3k Fists list uses the Stone Gauntlet, brings three squads of Breachers (with apothecaries), two Heavy Support squads with missile launchers (and flak), two laser-destroyer Rapiers, no Warders, and I fill my "deep strike" niche by bringing a Caestus Assault Ram that arrives normally and carries a squad of terminators right into the thick of the fighting (then, it goes after medium and light armor). It's a lot of T5, a lot of hardened armor, a lot of FNP, and I am pretty happy with it...even if it's a tad unimaginative.

 

Why don't you go with Pride of the Legion? Use your terminators as troops, then figure out what you really need. I think that PotL can produce some highly flexible, unique, and still characterful lists.

[AfroCampbell]

I Actually quite like the sound of your list!

how survivable is the Caestus?

 

Any reason why no warders in particular?

[Chef Wulfen]

According to lore, the Fists *are*, as a legion, a one-trick pony. It's just a very, very good trick.

 

Fortunately, the game allows you more Rites from which to choose. I can't really advise you, though; my 3k Fists list uses the Stone Gauntlet, brings three squads of Breachers (with apothecaries), two Heavy Support squads with missile launchers (and flak), two laser-destroyer Rapiers, no Warders, and I fill my "deep strike" niche by bringing a Caestus Assault Ram that arrives normally and carries a squad of terminators right into the thick of the fighting (then, it goes after medium and light armor). It's a lot of T5, a lot of hardened armor, a lot of FNP, and I am pretty happy with it...even if it's a tad unimaginative.

 

Why don't you go with Pride of the Legion? Use your terminators as troops, then figure out what you really need. I think that PotL can produce some highly flexible, unique, and still characterful lists.

are you use polux and how are you running the Caestus with any upgrades or just bare? are you also just walking the breachers? 

[Sully ad Bellum]

Yes, I bring Polux attached to a twenty-man squad of breachers; two flamers, two meltas, no vexilla; sergeant with artificer armor, powerfist, and melta bombs; apothecary with artificer armor and a power sword.

The other two squads of breachers are both identically equipped: flamer, melta, vexilla; sergeant with artificer armor, powerfist, and melta bombs; apothecary with artificer armor and a power sword.

It might be frivolous, but I equip both of my ten-man Heavy Support squads (again, armed with missile launchers and flak) with Hardened Armor.

The terminators are equipped as follows: two with power swords and combi-plas, two with chainfists and storm shields, and the sergeant has a thunder hammer and storm shield. Attached to them is a centurion (not a consul - the Champion consul seems like a waste of points in a Fists list) in terminator armor equipped with a pair of lightning claws. As long as the three shield-bearers stay alive and in coherency, the majority toughness of that squad is 5.

The Caestus is upgraded with an auxiliary drive, in case it gets tagged while in Hover mode as it offloads the terminators or conducts Ram attacks.

I also am bringing a Moritat in artificer armor armed with two plasma pistols, a charnabal sabre for close combat, and melta bombs. I am currently reconsidering the two plasma pistols due to the change in the Chain Fire Overheat! rule; many people seem to like one plasma pistol and one volkite serpents. That would save me a few points.

Whole list comes out to exactly 3,000 (and a few points less if I swap the plasma pistol for a serpenta).

The Breachers are going to be on foot, so I am relying on my Heavy Support squads and my Rapiers to glance-kill the inevitable Typhon, which is the only thing that really scares me, and then any high-value transports, like Spartans. The short squads can either stay back and hold objectives, or they can advance alongside Pollux' mob, depending on the scenario. They are the Chi. The Cheng is the squad of terminators in the Caestus, who with their chainfists can help with any surviving superheavies; with their majority T5 and 3++ stand a pretty decent chance against any 5-man terminator-equipped squad out there; and with the ability to control objectives, adds some much-needed maneuverability to this admittedly slow list.

I don't bring the Warders for two reasons, one fluffy, one more practical. The practical reason is that they are substantially pricier points-wise than breachers, especially when you start equipping them with power axes, which seems to be their purpose; I'd rather spend those points elsewhere, even on Hardened Armor for my Heavy Support squads (a choice which I am happier with each time I see a list with Quad Mortars in it). The fluffy reason is this: there's only a reinforced company of Warders, say 500 tops given the size of Imperial Fists companies. Most of them are on the Phalanx, warding; detachments are on various ships, but probably fewer than half of even the largest ships in the fleet could boast a detachment of Warders. For instance, no mention of them is made in the Crimson Fist short story (not determinative, of course, but still). True, I bring Polux, who's even rarer than Warders (you might even say unique), but the idea for my list is two companies fighting together, the CDVth and the DLXIVth.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone who brings Warders, of course, and I may take them someday. They just don't fit into my list currently.

 

So as not to hijack the thread from AfroCampbell, if you'd like to rip up my list and/or make suggestions, I have created a new thread for that purpose:  http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303618-viith-legion-dlxivth-co-3000-points/