Slips Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Especially when you consider the "Angron Deadlifted a Titan" bit off fluff :P Shenanigans, really, but its there >_> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I doubt he'll be as tough as Vulkan. He'll probably be more like Dorn, perhaps slightly better in combat. Guilliman is a tactician who can also hold his own decently in combat (except against other Primarchs according to the books ).He held off a rampaging Angron and Lorgar who was the most powerful he had been in a while. I don't think Guilliman is that bad at fighting. If he has a power fist and power sword of some sort I figure he'll have the ability to split his attacks between what he prefers to use."Held off" isn't the word I'd use for his fight with Angron lol. Unless you by "Held off" you mean "Blocked every punch with his face." He didn't die, I'd say that's an achievement Well so far everyone of the Primarchs seems to hold that achievement aside from Ferrus lol. Edit: speaking during the heresy of course ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 But Ferrus fought against Demon Dorian Gray 'Possessed' Fulgrim and not Angron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Oh I meant specifically he didn't die holding off Lorgar and Angron :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think it would be cool if for the UM rite of war, you had to take full 20 man tactical squads (for the troops requirements) but they'd get a points reduction. It would be fluffy in my mind that they have such high amounts of manpower and good logistics that that would be a possibility. Maybe have full 20 man squads able to purchase a heavy and special weapon, to show the evolution of the tactical squads? WLK Tac Vet squads can already do that, just at 10 men. No point in giving it to standard tacs. There is every point in giving it to standard tactical squads as Guilliman penned that little thing called the Codex Astartes. I would think (especially with the short story of the UM training to combat other legions) the CA would show strongest in his own legion, and give Tactical Squads a boost. WLK I'd be very surprised if this happens, as I doubt that'll be included in Legiones Astartes: Ultramarines, and that level of customisation for an army only with the Primarch present doesn't really fit. Besides, why would the Ultras, with the greatest manpower reserves, bother including specials/heavies in their tac squads, Legions include specialist units for that sort of thing (unlike the broken Chapters, with far more limited manpower). Especially as FW has already established Horusd and the XVI as a Legion that loved them some tac squads, why would the Ultras get that option and the SoH not? Although really tac squads should really be able to take support weapons across all Legions anyway. While I get it for game balance/distinctiveness, it's a weird quirk of the LA list. Veterans, Breachers? sure go for the plasma/melta. Tacticals? Nope, Bolters only. Buffs Armywide ATSKNF. Combat Tactics for 20 man squads into 10 man demisquads. Really, ATSKNF? I highly doubt this, as the 30k rules have thus far avoided dropping that rule, which would be pretty massive in the apparently balanced 30k meta. Plus it kinda reeks of the dreaded 'special snowflake'. Why should Gulliman grant that ability? Are his men any less fearful than those of Russ, Angron, Ferrus or Horus (or quite frankly any Legion in the presence of their Primarch)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 There's no way he's going to be as badass as Vulkan in personal combat. Army-wide buffs are pretty much a guarantee though as it's what he is known for. He is the Julius Caesar of the 31st Millennium, a masterful tactician and leader (also come on, look at that haircut). I know we all love to doubt GW rule-writing, but thus far FW has been pretty on point with everyone except the Imperial Fists (not a single drawback? really). Except "the bitter end" oh hey fist player it's the end of turn six and you are losing? Well I think I want the game to end now without rolling kthnxbai Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 My prediction: General Primarch Rules, Master of the Legion Ws8 bs5 str7 t6 w6 i6 attk5 2+ 3++ Weapons: -Gladius - Str User, Ap2, Specialist Weapon -Power Fist - Str x 2, ap1, Sunder, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy -Primarch's Wrath - str4, ap3, salvo3/5, shred Special Rules: Master Commander - Guilliman can select any Warlord Trait Disciplined Ranks - all Ultramarines in the same detachment as Guilliman can chose to pass or fail leadership checks, they cannot be sweeping advanced Legion Special Rules: Prepared for any contingency - Legion Tactical Squads can take a special or heavy weapon for every 5 tacticals. Maximum two of each Hubris - Ultramarines can never benefit from allied warlord traits or special rules. Cannot be joined by allied units Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Btw in regards to the Codex Astartes... It's just popped up in a short story that the more tactical organisation of squads didn't rear it's head until after the Battle of Calth and Thiel returned to Guilliman on Maccrage to explain how he put together his own tactical force which was small and better equipped rather than the legion size units that were dedicated to specific tasks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I doubt he'll be as tough as Vulkan. He'll probably be more like Dorn, perhaps slightly better in combat. Guilliman is a tactician who can also hold his own decently in combat (except against other Primarchs according to the books ). He held off a rampaging Angron and Lorgar who was the most powerful he had been in a while. I don't think Guilliman is that bad at fighting. If he has a power fist and power sword of some sort I figure he'll have the ability to split his attacks between what he prefers to use. Hmph... yeah, I don't remember him holding his own so much against Angron as I remember Lorgar kinda saving his life before Angry Ron could land the death blow. In any case, I always thought Guilliman had dual Power Fists. Perhaps he'll have that option still, or maybe in a future book (probably with a second model). Never said Guilliman was bad at fighting, I just don't see him on the same level as a lot of his brothers. He fights with his intellect, not his hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 He wasn't getting pummeled by Angron, but was certainly on the defensive. He held his own against two Primarchs for a time, and Lorgar couldn't match him alone. The power levels of Primarchs fluctuate according to who writes the book... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Lorgar sucks, though. He's just... horrible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 On the tabletop he's immense :-P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 There's no way he's going to be as badass as Vulkan in personal combat. Army-wide buffs are pretty much a guarantee though as it's what he is known for. He is the Julius Caesar of the 31st Millennium, a masterful tactician and leader (also come on, look at that haircut). I know we all love to doubt GW rule-writing, but thus far FW has been pretty on point with everyone except the Imperial Fists (not a single drawback? really). Except "the bitter end" oh hey fist player it's the end of turn six and you are losing? Well I think I want the game to end now without rolling kthnxbai Okay really? Thats pretty situational in all honesty, it only has an effect if its a very, very close game, even then it could still turn around on the opponent. It's hardly a drawback like Night Lords being cowardly gits or Iron Hands having to take moral checks to run or sweeping advance. Honestly I thought it was the Fist player who got to choose that, it seems weird that the opponent gets to choose to stubbornly keep fighting. I doubt he'll be as tough as Vulkan. He'll probably be more like Dorn, perhaps slightly better in combat. Guilliman is a tactician who can also hold his own decently in combat (except against other Primarchs according to the books ). He held off a rampaging Angron and Lorgar who was the most powerful he had been in a while. I don't think Guilliman is that bad at fighting. If he has a power fist and power sword of some sort I figure he'll have the ability to split his attacks between what he prefers to use. Hmph... yeah, I don't remember him holding his own so much against Angron as I remember Lorgar kinda saving his life before Angry Ron could land the death blow. In any case, I always thought Guilliman had dual Power Fists. Perhaps he'll have that option still, or maybe in a future book (probably with a second model). Never said Guilliman was bad at fighting, I just don't see him on the same level as a lot of his brothers. He fights with his intellect, not his hands. Oh god please no. http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q532/mv8830/459257_zpsvukqzkdw.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 On the tabletop he's immense :-P If taken as a Pskyer. Because of Invisibility in 7th. Only. If not hes the wet noodle of Primarchs. @Heinrich: its the same as the Iron Warriors. Why we dont get to choose to stubbornly stay on the table is beyond me. It'll only really come into play if the IF/IW player is wining by a small enough margin that the opponent can possibly win by forcing that other turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I could see the legion getting a modified form of the doctrines they have in the current codex logic being all the other loyalists legions got a modified version of their chapter traits Fists better bolter shooting/ tank hunting heavy squads Ravens infiltrate instead of scout Iron hands resilience Salamanders flamers/master crafting Etc etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 On the tabletop he's immense :-P If taken as a Pskyer. Because of Invisibility in 7th. Only. If not hes the wet noodle of Primarchs. Even without invisibility he's better than Dorn. And that pisses me off Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 To make dorn awesome all they have to do is redact unwieldly from his sword... That's it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 To make dorn awesome all they have to do is redact unwieldly from his sword... That's it! Well they couldn't have everything now could they ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I don't get Dorn at all. This is the Praetorian of the Emperor, the guy survived the Siege of Terra, he said he wasn't afraid to fight anyone even thinking he could probably best Horus (The Lightning Tower, it also said he was psychologically scared by what Curze foretold and whether it would end up true). Guy has the most mundane weapons as well and yet the giant chainsword is unwieldy, he's like the eviscerator armed marine that you know sucks and is worse than a power fist but looks quite cool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 To VERY BRIEFLY go into the topic of Dorns Chainsword before getting back to the topic at hand: Potential Rules for Big Robby G, If they made Dorns Chainsword only unwieldy when making his "Uber Smash" attack and otherwise hit at initiative, I think that would fix the main problem we have with him. If they make his chainsword the size of a terminator, however, then I might understand :P As to Guilliman: Affecting Morale and Reserves. Unlocking Honor Guard or Invictus Breachers to occupy Elites and Troops Respectively (I feel like HQ will be a bit like Deathshroud). Being able to take/roll 1(+?) Warlord Traits from the Strategic Table in the 7th Ed BRB in addition to his Baked in Warlord Trait Maybe he'll be the 3rd Primarch with a Pimp Ride? (why they dont all have one is beyond me - but hey, Aetos Dios, I aint complaining :P) Weapon Mastery Rule (lets him choose how to distribute his attacks blah blah blah) (this might be utterly overpowered but hey I think it fits..?) 1 per game Orbital Bombardment at S8 Ap2 Apocalyptic Barrage - Think of it as not one ship in obit firing but multiple. I think it'll be something along these lines. More or Less. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Lorgar sucks, though. He's just... horrible. At that point he was getting hyped up on warp juice so was probably stronger than before. For example he survived being shot by a Titan plasma cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 "I don't want to hear any crying about Unwieldy." -Guy who uses Mortarion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 "I don't want to hear any crying about Unwieldy." -Guy who uses Mortarion "I don't want to hear any crying. Period." - Guy who doesn't have shoulder pads Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 "I don't want to hear any crying about Unwieldy." -Guy who uses Mortarion "I don't want to hear any crying. Period." - Guy who doesn't have shoulder pads "Just play Sons of Horus, they're almost the same." -Fellow Traitor Legionnaire Player Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Going back to topic. Guilliman should probably be the most competitive Primarch of the ones released so far, after Horus. Lore wise he should be equipped with the latest and greatest things, as well as relics from his numerous conquered worlds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303326-predictions-for-guilimans-rules/page/2/#findComment-3947872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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