IA: Venators: General ideas and concepts

[novalight]

Hi Liberites! new poster here looking for help, advice and community input. 

So following this thread, I've deliberated to try to flesh out my own DIY Ultramarine successor freshly dubbed the Venators. Who will be using the raptors emblem as their own. 

I'm looking for ideas, opinions and thoughts surrounding the chapter. 

In basic I am wanting them to be a mixture of 30k Ultramarine roman feel and ideals as well as subtle Asiatic themes bleeding through from their home world culture. In this sense I had the idea of the chapter being viewed as an analogue to Tengu in Japanese myth, specifically the raven/crow variant. At the same time, I would like the home world to have large misty forests. Through this, I feel native xenos species would take the place of "spirits", with the fortress monastery being 'forbidden palace' inspired. That being said, I would very much like to avoid the "Samurai in space" direction. 

I would like the Ultramarine aspects to be seen more in tactics, adornment and ideals,values and virtues of the chapter. Ultimately, they would be a chapter of pragmatists willing to change their doctrine to suit the occasion.  Through this I would like them to have close or at least familial ties to other Ultramarine successors. Beyond this and burgeoning ideas for a colour scheme from Olis, they're pretty bare bones.  

http://i.imgur.com/ST7bBpv.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/v6FiAe3.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/jH7lgLs.jpg

[Olis]

Seems like you have a good handle on what you want and what you don't want.

 

I think, firstly, we should nail down the basic details before venturing into fleshing out you chapter. So I'm talking of things like: when they were founded which'll lend a perspective on the chapter depending on how old they are; where the homeworld is (and what it is called), which'll dictate the broad category of enemies and allies they'll likely meet on a common basis; and whether or not the organistion of the chapter will be codex compliant.

 

Now, we already know these dudes are Ultramarines descendants. That much has already been said. Do you wish for them to be direct descendant or indirect? Again, age of the chapter would be a factor here. If there is a chapter with traits you like, you could claim lineage through them (provided they are Ultramarines successors) rather than simply going straight from Ultramarine gene-seed stock. This would add credence to deviations or the chapters personality quirks you may or may not want to explore.

[novalight]

 

I think, firstly, we should nail down the basic details before venturing into fleshing out you chapter. So I'm talking of things like: when they were founded which'll lend a perspective on the chapter depending on how old they are; where the homeworld is (and what it is called), which'll dictate the broad category of enemies and allies they'll likely meet on a common basis; and whether or not the organistion of the chapter will be codex compliant.

 

Founding wise. I was looking for a non stand out founding. I was thinking somewhere around say the 38th-39th millennium. Location wise, I was thinking to the east of macragge bordering the 500 worlds area along the eastern fringe. I would like them to be codex compliant, but leaning towards encouraging freedom of thought. 

 

 

Now, we already know these dudes are Ultramarines descendants. That much has already been said. Do you wish for them to be direct descendant or indirect? Again, age of the chapter would be a factor here. If there is a chapter with traits you like, you could claim lineage through them (provided they are Ultramarines successors) rather than simply going straight from Ultramarine gene-seed stock. This would add credence to deviations or the chapters personality quirks you may or may not want to explore.

Funnily enough, I was thinking of having them draw their line through the eagle warriors. This I feel would give me an excuse to have them denote company through kneepad. Though, I'm not sure how much it would effect. 

[Olis]

Given the date bracket, we're talking something like the 23rd or 24th Founding - which would make them a sibling chapter to the Marines Errant, considering they would also be descended from the Eagle Warriors and are of the 23rd Founding. It would make the date more like the 37th Millennium, mind you, than the 38th - 39th. 

[Sete]

I like the second color scheme. Olis is giving some good advice!

Maybe its time to start working on my DIY chapter lore.

[Marshal Mattias]

I like the halved scheme but with the blue and grey of the third scheme, not that I'm being contrary :P

I think it'll be important to avoid your grey turning into black, as black can look a bit strange with a dark blue. Beyond that, sounds like a very convincing DIY so far - it's always a good sign if people look at it and wonder why they haven't heard of them before ;)

[Knurd]

I like the direction you're taking your Chapter in. Always wanted to see a Japanese themed army but always seems to become the "Samurai in Space"

 

I am working a project very similar to yours actually, humanitarian UM Successor. I don't think I would ever put them on a tabletop but more for story and to satiate my ADD. I barely have the overall picture still ironing out the details. 

 

One thing that I intend to add is that even though they care about the people I don't ever see a Space Marine helping an everyday citizen directly. So my Chapter has enhanced serfs whose role is to go out help protect, evacuate, barricade, etc the everyday citizen. Still need to iron that out though. 

[Lysimachus]

I like the first scheme, the halved blue/black would have nice continuity with the the blue/white of the Eagle Warriors.

 

Would look better if the shoulders were properly split scheme too though.

[Gree]

I would like the Ultramarine aspects to be seen more in tactics, adornment and ideals,values and virtues of the chapter. Ultimately, they would be a chapter of pragmatists willing to change their doctrine to suit the occasion.  Through this I would like them to have close or at least familial ties to other Ultramarine successors.

I was going to comment in the other thread, but you requested all feedback to be moved here.

 

You mentioned you had been looking for an Ultramarine Successor that was known for their flexibility, i.e not strictly following the Codex. That is a bit of an oxymoron, as most Ultramarine Successors rigidly adhere to the doctrines of the Codex Astartes. Most of them follow the example of the 40k Ultramarines, and the 40k Ultramarines really are nothing like the 30k Ultramarines. Things like innovation and deviance are frowned upon. The Uriel Ventris series is a great example of just how conservative the Ultramarines are in regard to the Codex.

 

I know you are making a DIY Chapter, butthere was a canon Ultramarine Successor that was not brought up as a suggestion in the original thread, but one that might fit your original criteria for a Chapter. Have you considered the Iron Snakes? They are an Ultramarine Successor, follow a flexible organization, and are relatively humane.

[Olis]

I like the first scheme, the halved blue/black would have nice continuity with the the blue/white of the Eagle Warriors.

Would look better if the shoulders were properly split scheme too though.

What, like this?

[novalight]

First and foremost, I appreciate all the replies so far.

Olis: I adore the idea that this chapter could be a sibling chapter of the Marines Errant as they're a favourite of mine. 37th millenium and 23rd founding would give them a decent amount of room for history while allowing a relative youth too. 

Sete: Thanks for the support so far, I take it you're liking the gold trim, black shoulder inset scheme?

Marshal Mattias: I agree on not letting the black become overbearing. Thoughts on the non halved schemes?

Knurd: I'm glad you like the direction I'm taking. I really like the idea of enhanced serfs doing a lot more of the basic humanitarian aid. It's brilliant.

LySiMachus: You're definitely right about the halved scheme creating nice continuity with the eagle warriors. I am afraid that I don't quite have the painting ability to produce an apt halved scheme. 

Gree: I had considered the Iron Snakes, but I'm not much of a fan of their squad level operations. I do very much appreciate the suggestion. 

Borrowing work from Blazbaros' Eternal Legion on DeviantArt. I thought his scheme may work also:

http://i.imgur.com/qjeCOpT.jpg

 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The color scheme posted above, is beautiful.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

As for avoiding becoming "samurai in space", perhaps you should consider Chinese, Korean, or Thai influences- or even Japan before the Heian period, i.e., before the samurai gained the influence and authority they had under the shoguns.

[Draakur]

Given their name, are you going to have hunting themes of some sort present? 

[Tian Shan]

Given their name, some sort of focus on squads (packs) seems reasonable too. However I'm not too sure on (forgotten) the Iron Snakes' squad ideas you've talked about.

 

Large misty forests... Chapter that prefers stealth attacks?

 

I know the Chinese variant of Tengu is about a sky-dog swallowing the sun which caused eclipses, i have an image in my head of the arrival of the new chapter to the world in their ships, coming in the direction between the planet and its sun, gradually causing the sun to have an eclipse from the centre outwards. Would probably have to be a stupidly large ship/fleet but i don't care right now!

 

I'm loving the indented markings on that Veteran shoulder pad...

[Gaius Atticus]

Considering how common Ultra successors are in the fluff, home-brew Chapters from Ultra stock are pretty rare, so this army will be suprisingly unique.

 

One question I have is will you be following the standard Codex markings? If so, take into account the shoulder pad trims varying between companies, as some companies will suit your chapter colours better than others.