Dom_ Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hey Heresy fans, I've been playing 40k for a good while now, and I'm building up a reasonable 40k Ultramarine force. However, I'm a little baffled. As you might guess from the thread's title, I have no idea what makes 30k. How do you play it? Is it essentially the same rules, but with added supplements for heresy forces? How different is it to 40k? And are the two systems interchangeable? Many thanks Dom_ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relict Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Think of 30K as a total conversion (as in the PC gaming sense - when you take the engine from, say, Half-Life and make CounterStrike from it) of 40K instead of merely an expansion pack. 30K is meant to represent the Imperium of Man at the height of its power. Before it fell to corruption and bureaucracy, it was immensely powerful and newly forged. Before leadership fell to mere mortals, Mankind was led by demigods and the Emperor himself. Before the Space Marines were "merely" the tip of the spear, they were Legion - a hundred thousand strong. The Imperium of 40K is a withering old man trying to fend off the vultures. The Imperium of 30K was a warrior in his prime, cutting down his foes with impunity until his brother turned upon him. Enough of the poetic stuff. Some of us prefer 30K thanks to the gorgeous models that FW has been putting out. To many of us (who grew up with 40K lore), it is a chance to see the greatest heros of Mankind given form (and rules) at last. Others prefer to 30K due to its more balanced nature. Plus, hey, we get a Mechanicum army list that is a power in its own right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I play 30k for the amazing lore, documenting the heroes the current 40k Imperium was built by. I play for the much greater balance between armies, everyone more or less has access to the same things aside from each Legions specialty units. I LOVE the models Forgeworld has been releasing for each Legion. Oh and uh.....PRIMARCHS!!!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Relict pretty much nailed it. Think of it as a game system that uses the rules of 40k to play with armies from the beginning of the Imperium. Different force organization, different technology, and primarchs. Forgeworld produces the miniatures and rulebooks, of which there are four so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_ Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Relict pretty much nailed it. Think of it as a game system that uses the rules of 40k to play with armies from the beginning of the Imperium. Different force organization, different technology, and primarchs. Forgeworld produces the miniatures and rulebooks, of which there are four so far. Think of 30K as a total conversion (as in the PC gaming sense - when you take the engine from, say, Half-Life and make CounterStrike from it) of 40K instead of merely an expansion pack. 30K is meant to represent the Imperium of Man at the height of its power. Before it fell to corruption and bureaucracy, it was immensely powerful and newly forged. Before leadership fell to mere mortals, Mankind was led by demigods and the Emperor himself. Before the Space Marines were "merely" the tip of the spear, they were Legion - a hundred thousand strong. The Imperium of 40K is a withering old man trying to fend off the vultures. The Imperium of 30K was a warrior in his prime, cutting down his foes with impunity until his brother turned upon him. Enough of the poetic stuff. Some of us prefer 30K thanks to the gorgeous models that FW has been putting out. To many of us (who grew up with 40K lore), it is a chance to see the greatest heros of Mankind given form (and rules) at last. Others prefer to 30K due to its more balanced nature. Plus, hey, we get a Mechanicum army list that is a power in its own right. I play 30k for the amazing lore, documenting the heroes the current 40k Imperium was built by. I play for the much greater balance between armies, everyone more or less has access to the same things aside from each Legions specialty units. I LOVE the models Forgeworld has been releasing for each Legion. Oh and uh.....PRIMARCHS!!!!!! Ok thanks for the info. So to play would you need all of the FW Horus Heresy books? Also, how interchangeable are the two systems? can you play a 40k army against a 30k army for example? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_out Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Relict pretty much nailed it. Think of it as a game system that uses the rules of 40k to play with armies from the beginning of the Imperium. Different force organization, different technology, and primarchs. Forgeworld produces the miniatures and rulebooks, of which there are four so far. Think of 30K as a total conversion (as in the PC gaming sense - when you take the engine from, say, Half-Life and make CounterStrike from it) of 40K instead of merely an expansion pack. 30K is meant to represent the Imperium of Man at the height of its power. Before it fell to corruption and bureaucracy, it was immensely powerful and newly forged. Before leadership fell to mere mortals, Mankind was led by demigods and the Emperor himself. Before the Space Marines were "merely" the tip of the spear, they were Legion - a hundred thousand strong. The Imperium of 40K is a withering old man trying to fend off the vultures. The Imperium of 30K was a warrior in his prime, cutting down his foes with impunity until his brother turned upon him. Enough of the poetic stuff. Some of us prefer 30K thanks to the gorgeous models that FW has been putting out. To many of us (who grew up with 40K lore), it is a chance to see the greatest heros of Mankind given form (and rules) at last. Others prefer to 30K due to its more balanced nature. Plus, hey, we get a Mechanicum army list that is a power in its own right. I play 30k for the amazing lore, documenting the heroes the current 40k Imperium was built by. I play for the much greater balance between armies, everyone more or less has access to the same things aside from each Legions specialty units. I LOVE the models Forgeworld has been releasing for each Legion. Oh and uh.....PRIMARCHS!!!!!! Ok thanks for the info. So to play would you need all of the FW Horus Heresy books? Also, how interchangeable are the two systems? can you play a 40k army against a 30k army for example? If you're strictly looking for rulesets for the thus far covered legions and units, Forgeworld sells condensed versions (one for legion specific units and the other for universal units) of the first books to cover all the army building options. I *believe* FW released an FAQ with rules for carrying 30k over to 40k but I've yet to make the attempt so I can't be absolutely sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy1391 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 All you really need are the legion astartes crusade army list books (2 red books from FW) the big books are more fluff than rules but the fluff in them is sooooo good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's tge truest form of the hobby it's the foundation of which the world is built, it is violence incarnate mythos expanded from every piece of history it's humanities truest form and potential intake it is everything and anything http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/Mobile%20Uploads/tumblr_lfaxf5L8871qfk4o3o1_500_zpsibf3hfls.gif It's my life my world my everything Even the fiance knows she's second to it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millicant Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 As far as playing 30k vs 40k, Forgeworld has stated that is not strictly supported or intended. You certainly CAN do it, but there are complications to overcome and some basic differences in list building/design. Many fraters here can speak to it more in depth as they engage in such games more often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I wouldn't say 30k is superior for regular games to 40k. You're more limited tactically and army variation isn't as good. The system is interchangeable, not too many rule conflicts. It is a chance to field the heroes of legend in a mythical setting. Think of it as 40k historical war-gaming. Also FW make some lovely models... Albeit expensive! You can PM if you'd like and I can give you a rundown of the basics and various differences. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I wouldn't say you're more tactically limited. You have far more options than if you were playing 40k Space Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 More options, but more restrictions in fielding them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zigmunth Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Think of 30K as a total conversion (as in the PC gaming sense - when you take the engine from, say, Half-Life and make CounterStrike from it) of 40K instead of merely an expansion pack. 30K is meant to represent the Imperium of Man at the height of its power. Before it fell to corruption and bureaucracy, it was immensely powerful and newly forged. Before leadership fell to mere mortals, Mankind was led by demigods and the Emperor himself. Before the Space Marines were "merely" the tip of the spear, they were Legion - a hundred thousand strong. The Imperium of 40K is a withering old man trying to fend off the vultures. The Imperium of 30K was a warrior in his prime, cutting down his foes with impunity until his brother turned upon him. Enough of the poetic stuff. Some of us prefer 30K thanks to the gorgeous models that FW has been putting out. To many of us (who grew up with 40K lore), it is a chance to see the greatest heros of Mankind given form (and rules) at last. Others prefer to 30K due to its more balanced nature. Plus, hey, we get a Mechanicum army list that is a power in its own right. Sorry to not bring anything to the topic, just wanted to say that this is the best explanation of what 30k is. Thank you for this. I have been baffled as well at times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 As far as playing 30k vs 40k, Forgeworld has stated that is not strictly supported or intended. You certainly CAN do it, but there are complications to overcome and some basic differences in list building/design. Many fraters here can speak to it more in depth as they engage in such games more often.To expand on this, from the players who have tried to and succeeded with 30K armies vs 40K armies, 30K is built for massive games. Easily 2000 pts+ is where a 30K army feels most at home. It is very well balanced and everything can go together like clockwork gears in the han of the right player. Meanwhile at those levels, 40K tends to get unwieldy because the options were meant to be condensed. It's like trying to get a carton of a dozen eggs to make food that needs 6 more. Forgeworld has "FAQ"(more of a permission slip) that a 40K army can an is suggested to be allowed to take extra units to help balance the scales. But at smaller games, the increased points cost of 30K units makes ot hard to build small armies. For example, 500 points is going to get you very little. At 1,000 points, if you took say, a Night Lords list using the Terror Assault "Chapter Tactics"(or Rite of War as Forgeworld calls it), you would have a very small model count without any real firepower. So it gets very iffy because while both use the same BRB, 40K and 30K are built to different scales. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Even the fiance knows she's second to it You walk a dangerous line, my friend. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 30k = Lore, Primarchs, Hundred thousand strong legions, a time were technically all legions fought FOR the Emperor and when they didn't some of the most fantastical inter legionary combat engagements of all time, Imperial armies in the Billions, new worlds being conquered and subjugated with a mass off effort put to cross cultural assimilation, logical challenges against the Emperor in terms of religion vs science, were mortal men were swayed or stood fast against even the most brutal of bio engineered god warriors. Ancient technologies re discovered, the insight of how even a loyal servant to the Emperor may be swayed by the touch of the Warp, a society in which even though governed with an Iron fist, companionship, humanity and even happiness could be found. 40k= Decimated legions/world clinging onto what glory they can before they are rendered obsolete or the universe is restarted and the Big E's life support is eventually switched of flooding the materium with and endless onslaught of demonic buggery! PLUS 10K YEARS ON IS ALONG TIME TO FORGET STUFF. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Even the fiance knows she's second to it You walk a dangerous line, my friend. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/Mobile%20Uploads/giphy-10_zps00ledljk.gif Hey what can I say? People are a dime a dozen My horus heresy is one of a kind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 30K is for when you are tired of fighting all of those different armies out there. All those Orks, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, etc. Remembering all those different stat-lines and special rules. With 30K you have Space Marines fighting Space Marines, every game, all the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Unless your fighting Mechanicum. Or Solar Auxilia. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I've only played one game against a Legion army. The rest have been Dark Eldar, tyranids unknown xenos and chaos human settlements corrupted while cut-off EDIT: Also, the vast majority of my games are 1000 points. Options are limited, you can't really take Praetors with ROW. But doable and fun (for me). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_ Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thanks everyone for the help! So if I have this right, 30k uses the same basic rules as 40k, but essentially has its own codex system (I know they're not codices but bear with me). And its designed primarily to play legion v legion, with a few other factions like mechanicum etc. Sounds interesting, though I'm not too sure how popular it is where I am. And damn, my wallet would hate me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thanks everyone for the help! So if I have this right, 30k uses the same basic rules as 40k, but essentially has its own codex system (I know they're not codices but bear with me). And its designed primarily to play legion v legion, with a few other factions like mechanicum etc. Sounds interesting, though I'm not too sure how popular it is where I am. And damn, my wallet would hate me. You've got it. Instead of a Codex you get a Legion crusade book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 In my play group I'm the only 30k player (others are interested but don't have the funds currently) and only one has a problem with playing against 30k Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 At 1850 a regular Gw army would perform better than a 30k force... No reason to fear playing one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Of my 5 losses, only one was above 750, it was a 2k game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/303373-just-what-is-30k/#findComment-3948779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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