Just what is 30k?

[Atia]

30k is also a kind of renaissance of rogue trader/1st edition of epic, full of stuff we had back in the first days ;)

[deathspectersgt7]

A money grab.

[Fire Golem]

A money grab.

What a positive outlook.

[depthcharge12]

30k is love, 30k is life.

 

In general, 30k is more widely balanced than 40k will ever be. While you can still make some tough combos, there won't be any 2++ rerollable shenanigans.

 

All the basic rules are the same, but the new weaponry and the size of your army will be a new experience to deal with. 30k can be quite forgiving and you can run 2 20 man tactical squads with apothecaries and extra close combat weapons and be quite competative while still learning the basics of the game.

 

And while there can be some less optimal units, it's not like 40k where there are auto pick choices. As one who has played a few matches of 30k, I'd definitely suggest working toward a 2000 point force. 1850 points in 30k feels like the equivalent of 1500 points if 40k - you can still get what you want, but you'll need to make decisions to keep one or another thing. Between 2000-2500 points is where the legions shine and where you can get most of what you want with some redundancy.

[Ishagu]

It's easier to balance the same army with a few unit variations.

 

Mechanicum are super powerful - probably more competitive than any of the Legions.

[Relict]

Not trying to sound like an elitist, but I think 30K is for the more mature tabletop gamer, painter, and modeler. 

 

By "mature" I do not necessarily mean age. Think of 30K as "graduate school" to 40K's "undergraduate study." 

 

40K is more easily accessible, designed for general appeal, and cheaper. It is meant to draw in the undecided and let them experiment with their skills and inclinations. Hence the diverse factions and variety of rules. 

 

30K is for people who have already made up their minds. They want to play Legion/Mechanicum/SA. They want top-notch models and they are willing to pay top-notch dollars for them. The initial investment going into 30K is high - people tend to tread more carefully. Also, a 30K army requires more than just money - one has to have an elevated skill level as well if one wants to make their force look good. Resin is not as easy to work with as plastic (as my still unassembled Spartan can attest) and the FW models are more complex and detailed than most models GW has put out over the years. 

 

30K, as of right now, is more a special niche. I can see FW trying to make it more appealing to the general public (I think interesting things will begin happening once they start releasing UM-specific models/kits in earnest). 

 

I think a good question to ask any 30K initiate would be this: What got you interested in 30K? I will start - it was the HH novels. I have always been a fan of the 40K lore and I could not turn down a chance to bring some of my favorite characters from the books to life via resin form. :D

[Adra'Melek]

That does sound a bit elitist :)

[deathspectersgt7]

Yup Eiltist to me.

A money grab.

What a positive outlook.

that's me.

[depthcharge12]

That does sound a bit elitist :)

*puts down glass of scotch and takes off jacket*

 

@Dom

 

What Legion were you looking to play? Do you have a theme in mind?

 

Though it does get immature, I would suggest looking at this 1D4chan page because it is incredibly helpful for looking at what the new units do and what legion strengths/ weaknesses are:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_%2830k%29

[Dom_]

That does sound a bit elitist

*puts down glass of scotch and takes off jacket*

@Dom

What Legion were you looking to play? Do you have a theme in mind?

Though it does get immature, I would suggest looking at this 1D4chan page because it is incredibly helpful for looking at what the new units do and what legion strengths/ weaknesses are:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_%2830k%29

Right now I'm not looking to get into 30k. Hopefully I will in the future, but I was really curious about the game.

If I were to choose a legion, then I'd want either Ultras (stick with the theme I have), or possibly a pre-heresy traitor legion, like Luna Wolves, or Iron Warriors, or possibly Alpha Legion. I'm just starting to really get into the legion specific fluff, so who knows what I'll feel like in a year or two, or whenever I decide I don't have enough Plastic (resin) crack.

A while ago someone on MWG had an Iron Warriors list, and it meant they could use it as a 30k army, a 40k C:SM army, or a Chaos Army. Something like that would appeal to me a lot.

[Carlson793]

Another plus is that a 30K Legion force can be subbed as a 40K Space Marine force - only a few 30K units do not have a version in 40K. A touch tougher to do the reverse, as many 40K designs don't exist in 30K (although the Using Imperial units from other Forge World Books in Horus Heresy Games rule can cover some of these).

[Dom_]

I do have one more question. A couple of days around the HH forum, and I've noticed that a lot of people are not mentioning transports for tactical squads and the like. Is it better to have just bigger squads on foot rather than smaller squads in transports?

[OwlandMoonGuy]

A money grab.

As opposed to mainstream 40K which is a pure expression of "gaming for gamers" w/o any semblance of a profit motive.

I do have one more question. A couple of days around the HH forum, and I've noticed that a lot of people are not mentioning transports for tactical squads and the like. Is it better to have just bigger squads on foot rather than smaller squads in transports?

Many core units in 30K are 10 man minimum so it limits the notion of squad + IC in a given transport. There are still very good options especially for maelstrom style missions. Note also that 30K has less access to drop pods (unless you take the necessary steps to unlock them). And yet, having 20 man marine squads are also possible. The army list rules are more reflective of an armed force that has dedicated units for very specific purposes, e.g. Heavy Support squads where EVERY marine has the heavy weapon including the sgt. Large tactical squads have their role and foot slogging is one way to field them. There are also transports that can accommodate 20-man squads, e.g. Spartan Assault LR's that are beyond what SM's in 40K have at their disposal.

IMHO, having played 40K since 2nd edition, this is the version of 40K that most feels like military gaming. Tabletop forces are built from a number of core units that fulfill specific battlefield roles. And army lists = a synergy of those units, not the sum of what a "death star" style combo might bring to sway a game in your favor. 30K still allows & encourages highly specialized, fluffy & interesting units but they must be supported by others in order to be effective. I could wax on & on but I think you get the idea from the other posts in this topic.

Cheers mate. We look forward to seeing what you end up fielding. Cheers, -OMG

[Slips]

Its mostly because Tactical Squads become more Cost efficient when you add more marines to them. Starting at 150 for 10 and only going up to 250 for 20; before any other additions.

 

Considering that a maxed out Tac Squad is 20 Marines and that you'll probably be adding an Apothecary to the mix for FNP, Rhinos aren't an option. And at that size, the only things they can fit in is: A Thunderhaw, A Spartan or, if you cut out the apothecary for FNP, a Kharybdis or Storm Eagle.

 

None of which are cheap and are probably better off being used by your pricier elite units.

 

When you're playing at the 2.5k+ range and we start bringing out our big toys, a Rhino will literally never survive. You're better off getting more marines with FNP for more staying power on objectives.

 

That is, unless you're running a Mech List or Orbital Assault. In the Former you'll have target saturation in the latter the HAVE to fit into drop pods.

 

Angels Wrath lets you field either 20 man tacs or 19+Apoth since they're forced to be embarked within a Storm Eagle.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Hey Heresy fans,

 

I've been playing 40k for a good while now, and I'm building up a reasonable 40k Ultramarine force. However, I'm a little baffled. As you might guess from the thread's title, I have no idea what makes 30k. How do you play it? Is it essentially the same rules, but with added supplements for heresy forces? How different is it to 40k? And are the two systems interchangeable?

 

Many thanks

 

Dom_

 

It's the most beautiful thing ever... When I read about it in 2012 when it first came out I was in denial I said forgeworld is going to fail at doing it NO one is going to play it right? Boy was I wrong. As others have said it allows you to play the LEGIONS not chapter or war bands but the space marine legions in all of their glory. It's best that you play against other 30k opponents but it can work decently against 40k opponents. I myself just got started I recommend if you dig the concept head over to the black library and pick up horus rising. For rules check over forgeworld and just look at the models. They truly are gorgeous. Hope this helps at all.

[hisdudeness]

30k is love. 30k is life.

[Slips]

30k is love. 30k is life.

DAMNIT I RAN OUTTA LIKES!

[Fire Golem]

 

30k is love. 30k is life.

 

DAMNIT I RAN OUTTA LIKES!

I got it for ya :)

 

I've been in the hobby for almost 10 years, and I'm having more fun with the Heresy stuff than I ever did with 40k or Fantasy.

[hisdudeness]

As far as playing 30k vs 40k, Forgeworld has stated that is not strictly supported or intended. You certainly CAN do it, but there are complications to overcome and some basic differences in list building/design. Many fraters here can speak to it more in depth as they engage in such games more often.

This is purely a move so FW doesn't have to answer the mass of stupid questions that would arise if they said it was intended. No "modifying" of a 40k army is needed to play a Heresy army versus a 40k army. The only issue you will see is that a Heresy list is very restrictive below 2000 and really shines at 3000+ as it is intended for large point games. Half of my games are against 40k lists and I've yet to encounter any issues.

 

Think of 30k as any other Imperial Armour campaign book. It has a campaign system and some army lists, just like the other IA books. There is nothing magical about it. Take out the campaign system and you have another codex. It's the same game with the same types of adjustments.

[Relict]

And Primarchs. Let's not forget that we get to field the Primarchs themselves on the tabletop. These near mystical beings of godlike power that we have heard about over the decades. Now we get them in resin form with rules to match. Should an argument about "my daddy can beat up your daddy" come up, we can always face two Primarchs off against each other and let their rules and the dice gods decide the rest. Mathhammer prevails. :P