What's the deal with the Landspeeder Storm?

[Bukimimaru]

 

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident that we actually did have access to the LSS in our last codex.

You are wrong. I just checked.

 

Fair enough.

I suppose we have no reason to complain then.

If it wasnt in the last codex, no rerason we should expect them to add it to the new one.

[DarthOvious]

 

 

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly confident that we actually did have access to the LSS in our last codex.

You are wrong. I just checked.

 

Fair enough.

I suppose we have no reason to complain then.

If it wasnt in the last codex, no rerason we should expect them to add it to the new one.

 

 

Well the issue is we didn't get any new units at all. The new box sets we got were for units we already had. We could have done with a second flyer and the LSS would be a perfect inclusion as well. However we didn't get anything even though they wouldn't have needed to make any new kits if they gave us the Talon and the LSS.

[Jolemai]

I understand that this is your opinion and that's fine, but how is it an "issue"?

 

When was the last time you actually had a game and thought, "Oh, I really wish I had a [insert C:SM toy here] right now"? or your finest Scooby Do villain voice, "...and I would have won the game too if it wasn't for those pesky Codex writers"?

 

At the end of the day, if you want them in you can ally them in or in the case of the Stormtalon, run the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing to avoid the HQ and Troops tax. I am completely unperturbed by the lack of C:SM toys in our Codex.

[DarthOvious]

I understand that this is your opinion and that's fine, but how is it an "issue"?

 

When was the last time you actually had a game and thought, "Oh, I really wish I had a [insert C:SM toy here] right now"? or your finest Scooby Do villain voice, "...and I would have won the game too if it wasn't for those pesky Codex writers"?

 

At the end of the day, if you want them in you can ally them in or in the case of the Stormtalon, run the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing to avoid the HQ and Troops tax. I am completely unperturbed by the lack of C:SM toys in our Codex.

 

I suppose it depends on a persons interpretation of "issue". I was talking about the fact that we didn't get any new units at all, even though there was room to give us some and it wouldn't have been hard to do. It's all fair saying we're not getting the LSS or the Talon or any SM variant of any sort but they didn't add anything to our roster at all in terms of new units.

 

It could be an issue because it means buying Stormravens at xxx points for anti-air defence. Both Space Marines and Space Wolves have 2 different flyers to choose from, and have an option in the fast attack section rather than heavy support. I suppose Grey Knights only have one flyer but then again it's in their fast attack slot which competes only with Interceptors. So we come out the worst for it I think. Don't get me wrong I love the Stormraven and think it's good, but if all you want is a flyer to shoot some dakka and don't have anything to transport then a cheaper option would have been useful.

 

It could also be an issue because while Space Marines get more new stuff every codex we got nothing in this one. You might ask what's the point in playing Space Marines if we are SM+1, but you could also ask what is the point in playing Blood Angels if Space marines get a wider choice of options. 

 

All in all I like what they have done with the stuff that we have but we are missing out on so many options. For instance where is our relic which imparts Eternal Warrior onto our Captain? Why do we miss out on the big beatstick who kicks ass in close combat. Yes I know we have Dante and that he is incredible but isn't it a bit telling that a lot of Blood Angel players consider him an auto include when Space Marine players can take Chapter Masters and Captains and leave Lysander and Calgar at home?

[Jolemai]

I understand that this is your opinion and that's fine, but how is it an "issue"?

When was the last time you actually had a game and thought, "Oh, I really wish I had a [insert C:SM toy here] right now"? or your finest Scooby Do villain voice, "...and I would have won the game too if it wasn't for those pesky Codex writers"?

At the end of the day, if you want them in you can ally them in or in the case of the Stormtalon, run the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing to avoid the HQ and Troops tax. I am completely unperturbed by the lack of C:SM toys in our Codex.

I suppose it depends on a persons interpretation of "issue". I was talking about the fact that we didn't get any new units at all, even though there was room to give us some and it wouldn't have been hard to do. It's all fair saying we're not getting the LSS or the Talon or any SM variant of any sort but they didn't add anything to our roster at all in terms of new units.

Why did they need to? As for new stuff, we got new wargear that has breathed life into a lot of previously out of favour options (i.e Tacticals, Bikes, etc).

It could be an issue because it means buying Stormravens at xxx points for anti-air defence. Both Space Marines and Space Wolves have 2 different flyers to choose from, and have an option in the fast attack section rather than heavy support. I suppose Grey Knights only have one flyer but then again it's in their fast attack slot which competes only with Interceptors. So we come out the worst for it I think. Don't get me wrong I love the Stormraven and think it's good, but if all you want is a flyer to shoot some dakka and don't have anything to transport then a cheaper option would have been useful.

If you include Forgeworld we have loads of anti-air defense and there's an article on Flyers and anti-air a few threads down. With just our Codex we also have flakk missiles, then there's gun emplacements, Allies and that dataslate which I have already mentioned which places the Stormraven outside of our FOC and thus, it doesn't compete against anything. I fail to see why it matters that C:SM, C:SW and C:DA have two Flyers and in all honesty, do you regularly find you have a FA slot and the points available for a Stormtalon?

It could also be an issue because while Space Marines get more new stuff every codex we got nothing in this one. You might ask what's the point in playing Space Marines if we are SM+1, but you could also ask what is the point in playing Blood Angels if Space marines get a wider choice of options.

To which I retort, "who cares?". Each faction needs to be unique. We had a lot of new stuff when our fifth book came around and when it was time to write the new C:SM book they obviously needed something new to flesh it out and to give enough variety for all the Chapters in there. People play C:SM for their own Chapter which hasn't got a standalone book, people play C:BA because of the play style it brings - the close range firefight force which can break a foe in assault. Yes we can do a gunline build or whatever, but what right do we have to do it better than a different Codex?

All in all I like what they have done with the stuff that we have but we are missing out on so many options. For instance where is our relic which imparts Eternal Warrior onto our Captain? Why do we miss out on the big beatstick who kicks ass in close combat. Yes I know we have Dante and that he is incredible but isn't it a bit telling that a lot of Blood Angel players consider him an auto include when Space Marine players can take Chapter Masters and Captains and leave Lysander and Calgar at home?

We don't need a Relic which does that. If each faction has one then why are we playing a different codex? With Mephiston being reigned in, the biggest potential beatstick is the Furioso Librarian Dreadnought but even then there's only so much. Again, why should we be able to make Chapter Master Smash er like the Iron Hands or have Thunderwolves like C:SW? Our Codex brings the best out of every unit in combat rather than focus on one unit. We are fast and everything hits hard in combat across the board ad I've never found myself wanting anything else.

Again, just my opinion. If I may, why do you play C:BA? What is it that draws you to our Codex when you wish we had what another has?

[Bukimimaru]

 

 Yes I know we have Dante and that he is incredible but isn't it a bit telling that a lot of Blood Angel players consider him an auto include when Space Marine players can take Chapter Masters and Captains and leave Lysander and Calgar at home?

 

I dont think anyone could argue that we dont have enough HQ units to choose from. If they added a DIY Chapter Master as well (aside from all the fluff isues this would cause) it would add even more choices to an already waaay overcrowded HQ slot. Plus, who's goning to take a captain when theres an option to take "Captain +1".

[Xenith]

but you could also ask what is the point in playing Blood Angels if Space marines get a wider choice of options.

 

Indeed you could. And thusly I suggest you read this thread.

[DarthOvious]

Why did they need to? As for new stuff, we got new wargear that has breathed life into a lot of previously out of favour options (i.e Tacticals, Bikes, etc).

Yes, we did indeed get some of the new wargear in terms of grav weapons and heavy flamers. I'm not saying that we didn't get any new options. I'm just saying that we didn't get any new units.

If you include Forgeworld we have loads of anti-air defense and there's an article on Flyers and anti-air a few threads down. With just our Codex we also have flakk missiles, then there's gun emplacements, Allies and that dataslate which I have already mentioned which places the Stormraven outside of our FOC and thus, it doesn't compete against anything. I fail to see why it matters that C:SM, C:SW and C:DA have two Flyers and in all honesty, do you regularly find you have a FA slot and the points available for a Stormtalon?

Why are we including Forge World when we all know that Space Marines get Forge World too. Also not to mention that if you are including Forge World then you can look at all the units we DON'T get from them but Space Marines do get and then you can see a bigger gulf in options. I was looking at the contemptor dreadnoughts the other day and I didn't see the option for the Blood Angels one. When I checked the book for contemptor dreadnoughts the listing did not mention Blood Angels as a chapter that could take one. Also this is not the only case where this happens.

EDIT: Also in terms of allies I may not want any. To be honest I would rather run a pure Blood Angel list if I could. The dataslate which places our Stormraven outside our FOC, that wouldn't be the one that comes along with 2 talons by any chance? Because not a lot of players will want to run as many as 3 flyers, they will just want the option to have one or two just to fill out their AA spot.

To which I retort, "who cares?". Each faction needs to be unique. We had a lot of new stuff when our fifth book came around and when it was time to write the new C:SM book they obviously needed something new to flesh it out and to give enough variety for all the Chapters in there. People play C:SM for their own Chapter which hasn't got a standalone book, people play C:BA because of the play style it brings - the close range firefight force which can break a foe in assault. Yes we can do a gunline build or whatever, but what right do we have to do it better than a different Codex?

And once again we didn't get any new units in terms of this codex and that includes any new assault units. Once again where is our Captain that can take a piece of wargear for Eternal Warrior? You ask why should we perform shooting better than than the SM codex but you should ask why should Space Marines perform assault better than us and create Deathstar units better than us?

We don't need a Relic which does that. If each faction has one then why are we playing a different codex? With Mephiston being reigned in, the biggest potential beatstick is the Furioso Librarian Dreadnought but even then there's only so much. Again, why should we be able to make Chapter Master Smash er like the Iron Hands or have Thunderwolves like C:SW? Our Codex brings the best out of every unit in combat rather than focus on one unit. We are fast and everything hits hard in combat across the board ad I've never found myself wanting anything else.

It doesn't need to be a shield. It could have been any piece of wargear, like a piece of armour or even just a piece of stand alone wargear that gave our Captain the option for Eternal Warrior. Heck, it didn't even need to be Eternal Warrior it could have just been any rule which would have made our Captains or any other HQ choice for that matter badass and more survivable. I'm not sure why you pick out the Librarian Dreadnought as our option for that when it's survivability is the same as the last codex.

Not to mention I've already seen a few lists about that are allying in a Iron Hands Chapter Master for this very purpose. Why should we need to do that? We should be able to just make our Captain a badass instead.

Again, just my opinion. If I may, why do you play C:BA? What is it that draws you to our Codex when you wish we had what another has?

I've been playing Blood Angels since 3rd edition. I play Blood Angels because I love their fluff. It's only natural that I want a good codex to go with it. I'm not saying that the codex we have is bad, it's not it's pretty good but it does lack some options, especially for a chapter famed for being absolutely brilliant and brutal in close combat. I'm glad with the army wide rule of furious charge and I'm also glad with the BSF formation giving us +1I on the charge like we did back in 3rd edition but I really do think we lack the ability to make a character survivable in assault. After Dante and perhaps a couple of other named characters the best we can do with our customisable characters is a Captain on a bike with artificier armor and a storm shield. That's gives him T5 and a good invulnerable. He can still be instant deathed by S10 and other weapons that cause it though, but I reckon he is the best we can do for survivability purposes, other than Dante of course but I already mentioned that.

Yes I know we have Dante and that he is incredible but isn't it a bit telling that a lot of Blood Angel players consider him an auto include when Space Marine players can take Chapter Masters and Captains and leave Lysander and Calgar at home?

I dont think anyone could argue that we dont have enough HQ units to choose from. If they added a DIY Chapter Master as well (aside from all the fluff isues this would cause) it would add even more choices to an already waaay overcrowded HQ slot. Plus, who's goning to take a captain when theres an option to take "Captain +1".

The option could just be given to Captains which is an already existing HQ slot. A few people wanted to see customisable Chapter Masters for their second founding home made chapter.

[DarthOvious]

 

but you could also ask what is the point in playing Blood Angels if Space marines get a wider choice of options.

 

Indeed you could. And thusly I suggest you read this thread.

 

 

Like I mentioned above I've been playing Blood Angels since 3rd edition. Fluffwise I love them but as mentioned in another post if we were Space Marines +1 then only the fluff monkeys would play Space marines but I'm addressing that point from the other end. Only the fluff monkeys would play Blood Angels if we are just Space marines -1.

 

EDIT: I understand that there needs to be a balance between the two books but since we are the assault based army then I'm assuming we should be getting some really good assault based survivable units. Once again, don't get me wrong here Death Company and Sanguinary Guard are great but survivability wise they could be better. If you do the math against a unit of 6 Wraiths then you will see that the 6 Wraiths will eventually win out against both Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. This just goes to show you how survivable we are. Against a unit that is very survivable but not a lot of major damage output we still lose out against it.

[Xenith]

 

Once again, don't get me wrong here Death Company and Sanguinary Guard are great but survivability wise they could be better. If you do the math against a unit of 6 Wraiths then you will see that the 6 Wraiths will eventually win out against both Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. This just goes to show you how survivable we are. Against a unit that is very survivable but not a lot of major damage output we still lose out against it.

 

 

Well, I mean. Apples and oranges. 

 

Against a mob of grots, sanguinary guard will probably lose a few guys, whereas a dreadnought wont lose anything. That doesn't mean that a dreadnought is a better unit and more survivable than sanguinary guard.

 

Your example, wraiths, are of one of the most resilient units in an army whose theme is resilience. I.e. The most resilient of the most resilient. Saying that one of our high damage output units isn't as survivable as them is hardly a fair comparison. You might as well complain that a rhino is a bad transport choice as it cannot move as fast as a wave serpent.

 

Sanguinary guard with a priest (2+, 5+FNP) are very survivable, until the S8 AP2 starts getting thrown around.

[Quozzo]

I would have liked the Land Speeder Storm in our new 'Dex after years of want in our old 'Dex. It didn't happen, but a LSS isn't the be all and end all of our codex. There's a lot more I'm happy with than the absence of something we never had.

[Lucien Eilam]

EDIT: I understand that there needs to be a balance between the two books but since we are the assault based army then I'm assuming we should be getting some really good assault based survivable units.

 

On what basis? Resilience isn't the Blood Angels' deal. They have Furious Charge and initiative bonuses to make them strong in assault. If you want to take a pounding, play Iron Hands.

[DarthOvious]

 

 

Once again, don't get me wrong here Death Company and Sanguinary Guard are great but survivability wise they could be better. If you do the math against a unit of 6 Wraiths then you will see that the 6 Wraiths will eventually win out against both Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. This just goes to show you how survivable we are. Against a unit that is very survivable but not a lot of major damage output we still lose out against it.

 

 

Well, I mean. Apples and oranges. 

 

Against a mob of grots, sanguinary guard will probably lose a few guys, whereas a dreadnought wont lose anything. That doesn't mean that a dreadnought is a better unit and more survivable than sanguinary guard.

 

Your example, wraiths, are of one of the most resilient units in an army whose theme is resilience. I.e. The most resilient of the most resilient. Saying that one of our high damage output units isn't as survivable as them is hardly a fair comparison. You might as well complain that a rhino is a bad transport choice as it cannot move as fast as a wave serpent.

 

Sanguinary guard with a priest (2+, 5+FNP) are very survivable, until the S8 AP2 starts getting thrown around.

 

 

I have said many times that I am fairly happy with the new codex, I just think we are missing a few things that's all and one of those things is resilience. We play a Space marine chapter, if Space Marines aren't supposed to be hard to kill then what is? Fluffwise a single Space marine should be able to slash through a hundred guardsmen without a sweat. Of course I'm not saying that this should literally apply to the game. However survivability is part of the game and units that are good in assault need to be survivable in order to get there.

 

No offence, but Blood Angels use a lot of Assault based Jump Pack troops. These troops tend to have short ranged shooting weapons i.e. Bolt Pistols and so there needs to be a mechanism for delivery that is fairly reliable without suffering too many casualties.

[DarthOvious]

 

EDIT: I understand that there needs to be a balance between the two books but since we are the assault based army then I'm assuming we should be getting some really good assault based survivable units.

 

On what basis? Resilience isn't the Blood Angels' deal. They have Furious Charge and initiative bonuses to make them strong in assault. If you want to take a pounding, play Iron Hands.

 

Space Marines in general should be able to take a pounding. That's why that Shield is available to all Chapters in the SM Codex, even those that are not Iron Hands. iron hands in their supplement get to be even more resilient than the codex already is with Gorgon's Chains.

[DarthOvious]

I would have liked the Land Speeder Storm in our new 'Dex after years of want in our old 'Dex. It didn't happen, but a LSS isn't the be all and end all of our codex. There's a lot more I'm happy with than the absence of something we never had.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not all gloom and doom about the codex. It's a really good codex but with just a few things missing, that's all I'm saying. I love the fact they went back to a 3rd ed kind of style where we get furious charge and get +1I in the BSF. However in this game all assault armies really need to be able to get into assault. I just think getting a little bit more help to be able to do that would have been good. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's impossible and I certainly think we can do it but it is going to be hard against armies like Tau and Eldar. I was sure they would be pegging them back a bit when they next do their codices but then I saw what they done with Necrons and now I'm not too sure about that.

[Lucien Eilam]

That's why that Shield is available to all Chapters

 

Says who? No Relic is made available only to certain army builds. The Space Marine codex has to cover a far wider variety of Chapters.

 

The baseline for Space Marine resilience is their profile, not Eternal Warrior.

[DarthOvious]

 

That's why that Shield is available to all Chapters

 

Says who? No Relic is made available only to certain army builds. The Space Marine codex has to cover a far wider variety of Chapters.

 

The baseline for Space Marine resilience is their profile, not Eternal Warrior.

 

 

The Shield Eternal is available to both Chapter Masters & Captains and also other HQ's in the Space Marine codex and any chapter from the Space marine Codex may make a build with this in their list. That is the bottomline.

 

As for the Space Marine statline being the basis for their resilience, well if you consider T4 with a 3+ save to be resilient in a game flooded by high strength and low AP weapons i.e. Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, Lascannons, Shurikan Rending Weapons that are Eldar's basic weapon, Reaper Launchers, Hot Shot Lasguns, etc, etc.  Do I need to name some more?

[Jolemai]

 

 

If you include Forgeworld we have loads of anti-air defense and there's an article on Flyers and anti-air a few threads down. With just our Codex we also have flakk missiles, then there's gun emplacements, Allies and that dataslate which I have already mentioned which places the Stormraven outside of our FOC and thus, it doesn't compete against anything. I fail to see why it matters that C:SM, C:SW and C:DA have two Flyers and in all honesty, do you regularly find you have a FA slot and the points available for a Stormtalon?

 

Why are we including Forge World when we all know that Space Marines get Forge World too. Also not to mention that if you are including Forge World then you can look at all the units we DON'T get from them but Space Marines do get and then you can see a bigger gulf in options. I was looking at the contemptor dreadnoughts the other day and I didn't see the option for the Blood Angels one. When I checked the book for contemptor dreadnoughts the listing did not mention Blood Angels as a chapter that could take one. Also this is not the only case where this happens.

 

The Blood Angels Contemptor is in Imperial Armour Apocalypse. It has a separate profile due to it's unique set of weapons and no, we don't have access to Contemptor Mortis' but we don't need to as we have access to the Deredeo which is even better.

 

EDIT: Also in terms of allies I may not want any. To be honest I would rather run a pure Blood Angel list if I could. The dataslate which places our Stormraven outside our FOC, that wouldn't be the one that comes along with 2 talons by any chance? Because not a lot of players will want to run as many as 3 flyers, they will just want the option to have one or two just to fill out their AA spot.

 

I have mentioned Forgeworld and Allies/Dataslate as they boost the options available to us in the Codex. If you don't want to take them then that's your prerogative, but it doesn't mean you should lament not having C:SM's toys.

 

To which I retort, "who cares?". Each faction needs to be unique. We had a lot of new stuff when our fifth book came around and when it was time to write the new C:SM book they obviously needed something new to flesh it out and to give enough variety for all the Chapters in there. People play C:SM for their own Chapter which hasn't got a standalone book, people play C:BA because of the play style it brings - the close range firefight force which can break a foe in assault. Yes we can do a gunline build or whatever, but what right do we have to do it better than a different Codex?

 

And once again we didn't get any new units in terms of this codex and that includes any new assault units. Once again where is our Captain that can take a piece of wargear for Eternal Warrior? You ask why should we perform shooting better than than the SM codex but you should ask why should Space Marines perform assault better than us and create Deathstar units better than us?

 

We didn't get any new units because we didn't need any this time around. GW obviously preferred to give us generally better rules, cheaper points and BA flavour units (i.e the Terminator and Tactical Squad which we didn't have before). As I said earlier, our way is to be faster and harder than the average marine and our marines achieve that. Our characters are faster and hit harder - even more so with the right amount of buffs - and our deathstars can be comparable. They just need to be used differently.

 

We don't need a Relic which does that. If each faction has one then why are we playing a different codex? With Mephiston being reigned in, the biggest potential beatstick is the Furioso Librarian Dreadnought but even then there's only so much. Again, why should we be able to make Chapter Master Smash:cuss er like the Iron Hands or have Thunderwolves like C:SW? Our Codex brings the best out of every unit in combat rather than focus on one unit. We are fast and everything hits hard in combat across the board ad I've never found myself wanting anything else.

 

It doesn't need to be a shield. It could have been any piece of wargear, like a piece of armour or even just a piece of stand alone wargear that gave our Captain the option for Eternal Warrior. Heck, it didn't even need to be Eternal Warrior it could have just been any rule which would have made our Captains or any other HQ choice for that matter badass and more survivable. I'm not sure why you pick out the Librarian Dreadnought as our option for that when it's survivability is the same as the last codex.

 

I never said it needs to be a shield and it's not really something we need. Our Captains are better than they were and good enough, with the potential to become even better with the right set of buffs. I mentioned the Librarian Dreadnought by way of an example and to be fair, whilst I wasn't talking about durability it has improved with the 7th edition's damage table.

 

Not to mention I've already seen a few lists about that are allying in a Iron Hands Chapter Master for this very purpose. Why should we need to do that? We should be able to just make our Captain a badass instead.

 

Perhaps because they want to? In the very few I've seen do it they aren't doing it because their generalship is so poor that they need the IH CM to win a game. Perhaps your definition of a "badass" is different to mine but our guys have potential. An IH CM is there to sit and take a beating, then reply with one - but it's just a thunder hammer. Our guys, with the right set of buffs have +1 STR, +1 INT, +1 WS + D3 ATK + D3 INT and so on and then to defend ourselves, we can sit back with our 2+/3++, T5 (if bike), FnP, etc. We are offense, they are defense and they would love to be able to assault like we do.

 

 

 

Replies in green.

 

 

 

That's why that Shield is available to all Chapters

 

Says who? No Relic is made available only to certain army builds. The Space Marine codex has to cover a far wider variety of Chapters.

 

The baseline for Space Marine resilience is their profile, not Eternal Warrior.

 

 

The Shield Eternal is available to both Chapter Masters & Captains and also other HQ's in the Space Marine codex and any chapter from the Space marine Codex may make a build with this in their list. That is the bottomline.

 

As for the Space Marine statline being the basis for their resilience, well if you consider T4 with a 3+ save to be resilient in a game flooded by high strength and low AP weapons i.e. Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, Lascannons, Shurikan Rending Weapons that are Eldar's basic weapon, Reaper Launchers, Hot Shot Lasguns, etc, etc.  Do I need to name some more?

 

A Space Marine's statline reflects one of resistance. Yes those weapons are prevalent in 40k but the troops of other races die even faster because they are less resilient. A Relic that grants EW on one character isn't going to change that.

 

[Xenith]

 

 

 

 

As for the Space Marine statline being the basis for their resilience, well if you consider T4 with a 3+ save to be resilient in a game flooded by high strength and low AP weapons i.e. Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, Lascannons, Shurikan Rending Weapons that are Eldar's basic weapon, Reaper Launchers, Hot Shot Lasguns, etc, etc.  Do I need to name some more?

 

 

And how do you think it feels to be a guardsman in a game where a space marines basic sidearm wounds on a 3+ and always ignores your armour?

 

Once again, Space marines are resilient. Comared to Necrons, the armies whose theme is being hard to kill, they are slightly less resilient, but compared to...every other army in the game...they're tough.

 

Anyway. The Storm is good, but not a game breaker. It's nice, but woudnt add too much to a BA army. Combat scouts want to be 10 men strong. 

[DarthOvious]

 

The Blood Angels Contemptor is in Imperial Armour Apocalypse. It has a separate profile due to it's unique set of weapons and no, we don't have access to Contemptor Mortis' but we don't need to as we have access to the Deredeo which is even better.

 

And this entry was not included in the recent edition of Imperial Armour, War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes. Case closed. Not to mention how many other units do we not get access to? Honestly, have a look at the imperial armour book that I have just mentioned and count how many things we can have. Chaplain Dreadnought? Any sort of Dreadnought for that matter.

 

I have mentioned Forgeworld and Allies/Dataslate as they boost the options available to us in the Codex. If you don't want to take them then that's your prerogative, but it doesn't mean you should lament not having C:SM's toys.

 

Obviously you pay no attention to what I said. Please learn to read. I have continuously stated that I like the new codex. I am not "lamenting" anything. I just highlighted that there was some areas where we could have been given a bit extra that we were missing. I don't really believe that you just had the gaul to type that out to me in such a fashion. The only thing I am "lamenting" now is actually starting this conversation with you. Learn to read what I say or leave me alone.

 

We didn't get any new units because we didn't need any this time around. GW obviously preferred to give us generally better rules, cheaper points and BA flavour units (i.e the Terminator and Tactical Squad which we didn't have before). As I said earlier, our way is to be faster and harder than the average marine and our marines achieve that. Our characters are faster and hit harder - even more so with the right amount of buffs - and our deathstars can be comparable. They just need to be used differently.

 

Obviously once again you didn't listen because I listed two specific units which would have been beneficial for us that other Space marine chapters get. Where is our second flyer within our fast attack slot? Where is the Land Speeder Storm which would suit our scouts perfectly and the style in which the Blood Angels play? You get a F for not paying attention.

 

I never said it needs to be a shield and it's not really something we need. Our Captains are better than they were and good enough, with the potential to become even better with the right set of buffs. I mentioned the Librarian Dreadnought by way of an example and to be fair, whilst I wasn't talking about durability it has improved with the 7th edition's damage table.

 

Something that makes our HQ more durable is not really needed? Fine go and tell that to all the players making up lists who are allying in SM Chapter Masters with Shields. Don't tell me about it. I really don't care what you think since you have demonstrated willingly to not listen to a word that I have said. You aren't really reading the words that I am writing and you are arguing with some other guy who you think has come onto the board to totally badmouth the codex which is not what I am doing. I have said that the codex is good. I just highlighted a couple of areas which would have been good for us to have and be beneficial for us. That is all and I don't need this hassle from people in this thread who have jumped on me like this for stating an opinion.

 

Perhaps because they want to? In the very few I've seen do it they aren't doing it because their generalship is so poor that they need the IH CM to win a game. Perhaps your definition of a "badass" is different to mine but our guys have potential. An IH CM is there to sit and take a beating, then reply with one - but it's just a thunder hammer. Our guys, with the right set of buffs have +1 STR, +1 INT, +1 WS + D3 ATK + D3 INT and so on and then to defend ourselves, we can sit back with our 2+/3++, T5 (if bike), FnP, etc. We are offense, they are defense and they would love to be able to assault like we do.

 

It's not just a Thunderhammer, it's wounds that can't be instantly taken away from your 200 point character by a 15 point Meltagun. As for the rest of what you telling me in regards to our buffs, yes I get it and I like them but the +1S comes our Chapter tactics as such, the +1I comes from our detachment rules and the +D3 attacks and initiative come from our psychic powers. You make it sound like none of the chapters get any of these benefits when they do. Other chapters get Chapter Tactics, Detachment Rules and Psychic Powers.

 

 

 

A Space Marine's statline reflects one of resistance. Yes those weapons are prevalent in 40k but the troops of other races die even faster because they are less resilient. A Relic that grants EW on one character isn't going to change that.

 

Actually it does because that one character can tank wounds for a unit. Yes other stuff does die faster but armies like IG have numbers in strength as their main selling point not to mention big tanks. We all know that Eldar and Tau have been dominating the meta for the last couple of years so don't pretend that they haven't. Not to mention that the new Necrons look to be taking this mantle over. I was hoping that armies were getting reigned back in but now I'm not too sure.

 

Once again don't get me wrong, I like the codex overall and I think it's great. I am just highlighting a few areas which could have made us just that little bit stronger, especially for the assault part of the game. Now please stop jumping on me like I am some sort of heretic because you are really annoying me with your attitude and yes I am giving you attitude back in this post because you deserve it.

 

[Lucien Eilam]

:lol:

 

Handbags, much?

 

Nobody's argued that it wouldn't make Blood Angels stronger. They've argued that it isn't particularly appropriate or thematic for Blood Angels characters to be tanking wounds.

[DarthOvious]

 

 

 

 

 

As for the Space Marine statline being the basis for their resilience, well if you consider T4 with a 3+ save to be resilient in a game flooded by high strength and low AP weapons i.e. Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, Lascannons, Shurikan Rending Weapons that are Eldar's basic weapon, Reaper Launchers, Hot Shot Lasguns, etc, etc.  Do I need to name some more?

 

 

And how do you think it feels to be a guardsman in a game where a space marines basic sidearm wounds on a 3+ and always ignores your armour?

 

Once again, Space marines are resilient. Comared to Necrons, the armies whose theme is being hard to kill, they are slightly less resilient, but compared to...every other army in the game...they're tough.

 

Anyway. The Storm is good, but not a game breaker. It's nice, but woudnt add too much to a BA army. Combat scouts want to be 10 men strong. 

 

 

Guardsmen have numbers and big tanks. That has ALWAYS been their strength. They make up for what dies by having tons more of it right behind it.

 

Yes, I know Necrons are tough but the new codex goes a tad ridiculously far with it. I have done the math on those Wraiths and they are tough and it's mind boggling that they then give them a formation where they can get RP as well. Necrons are not just slightly tougher than us, they are a good amount tougher than us. This excludes warriors who turn out to be roughly the same as us in terms of resilience.

 

In terms of the storm it's the fact that it's more like our style that I just don't get. Don't get me wrong I still think that 10 scouts with CCW infiltrating up the field is still a good role for them but remember we are supposed to be the fast hard hitting Space Marine army. Nothing says fast like a Land Speeder up the table with a following turn of disembarking and assaulting.

[DarthOvious]

Handbags, much?

Nobody's argued that it wouldn't make Blood Angels stronger. They've argued that it isn't particularly appropriate or thematic for Blood Angels characters to be tanking wounds.

Well he brought the handbags out first. I'll finish what he started.

As for people arguing that it's not in Character for Blood Angels Characters to be tanking wounds then I suggest they start reading the fluff. For a start Mephiston is famed for holding practically a whole army up by himself and this is included in the fluff. The Sanguinor fights with Ka'bandha and tanks wounds off of him. sanguinius held off a whole army in front of the golden gate by himself as well. How much more do I really need to state here? There is so much fluff in the books where a single Blood Angel character does this sort of thing and then I get told that this isn't what the Blood Angels are about? Really? You mean really? Honestly I am in shock here in reagards to that assessment.

[Lucien Eilam]

Well he brought the handbags out first.

 

He really didn't. He just disagreed with you.

 

None of your examples are ordinary Blood Angels, and you can hold up an army by killing them before they have time to swing.

[DarthOvious]

 

Well he brought the handbags out first.

 

He really didn't. He just disagreed with you.

 

None of your examples are ordinary Blood Angels, and you can hold up an army by killing them before they have time to swing.

 

 

He did. For a start he deliberately ignored what I said and his reaction to my posts were of a passive aggressive nature. I don't see why I should be jumped on like that.

 

Since when were Captains, Chaplains, Librarians and Sanguinary Priests "ordinary" Blood Angels? We are taking about wargear that only the most seasoned veterans can take.