Starting a Grey Knights force..

[Reclusiarch Darius]

You're making a lot of sense. The only point I could contend with is that since we're so expensive, you won't get much for the points you save anyway... but I'll see what it would do to my list if I can make them a bit cheaper.

 

Yeah you will. Dreadknight upgrades, Mastery 3 on your Libby, a relic, a psycannon here or there...believe me, even 5pts saved is 5pts you will find a use for. We can't afford to waste points, we don't have the luxury of redundancy. Every unit has to hit like a truck, or its just not going to work. 

EDIT: Actually though, why wouldn't it be good to charge purifiers? Even if you don't kill them, they can't do CF when tied up in melee, right?

 

Because unless you're in 2+ armour, they'll brutally murder you and trade exceptionally well. Seriously. If your opponent charges your Purifiers, smile. He's just sent that unit to its death, and potentially they won't even take the Purifiers with them. S6 AP3 and 'Force' with 2A each is hardcore dude. Most dedicated assault units can't match that, much less beat it. 

[Zembar]

 

EDIT: Actually though, why wouldn't it be good to charge purifiers? Even if you don't kill them, they can't do CF when tied up in melee, right?

 

Because unless you're in 2+ armour, they'll brutally murder you and trade exceptionally well. Seriously. If your opponent charges your Purifiers, smile. He's just sent that unit to its death, and potentially they won't even take the Purifiers with them. S6 AP3 and 'Force' with 2A each is hardcore dude. Most dedicated assault units can't match that, much less beat it. 

 

 

But all of that assumes I have the warp charges to cast hammerhand and force with two units, in addition to the two cleansing flames. And my army has other units as well that could use sanctuary, hammerhand, force and whatever my librarian manages to get his hands on.

 

If I'm given infinite warp charges, sure. But I'm not.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

But all of that assumes I have the warp charges to cast hammerhand and force with two units, in addition to the two cleansing flames. And my army has other units as well that could use sanctuary, hammerhand, force and whatever my librarian manages to get his hands on.

 

If I'm given infinite warp charges, sure. But I'm not.

 

Why would your cast them all in the same Psychic phase?

 

Turn 1 (I'm assuming you Drop Pod them in), 'Cleansing Flame' is the only thing worth casting. Turn 2 onwards, if you expect to get charged, turn on 'Hammerhand' (at very least), 'Force' if it helps (if fighting multi-wound, FNP, MC's etc). 

[Zembar]

 

But all of that assumes I have the warp charges to cast hammerhand and force with two units, in addition to the two cleansing flames. And my army has other units as well that could use sanctuary, hammerhand, force and whatever my librarian manages to get his hands on.

 

If I'm given infinite warp charges, sure. But I'm not.

 

Why would your cast them all in the same Psychic phase?

 

Turn 1 (I'm assuming you Drop Pod them in), 'Cleansing Flame' is the only thing worth casting. Turn 2 onwards, if you expect to get charged, turn on 'Hammerhand' (at very least), 'Force' if it helps (if fighting multi-wound, FNP, MC's etc). 

 

 

The drop pod is a safe assumption. But if they survive turn 1 without being charged, CF is probably the best option again. I probably won't have the charges to spare unless they're already locked in combat, is my point.

 

The 1500 point list I'm looking at is, roughly(I'm going to post a more detailed one later):

GK NSF

Libby

10xPurifiers

5xTerminators

2xNDK

 

BA CAD:

Sang priest w/relic jetpack

2xscout squads (maybe snipers)

3xscout bikes w/locator beacon

3xbikes w/grav

drop pod for my purifiers

 

Libby and sang will join the termies. Scouts will camp backfield objectives in cover. Bikes will harass, NDK will tear stuff apart.

Might not be competetitive, but should be fun. Main worry is anti-air.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Might not be competetitive, but should be fun. Main worry is anti-air.

 

Looks fine. Just ignore Flyers. Seriously, it's pointless. The good Flyer armies don't care about normal levels of AA, but the good AA armies (Necrons, Tau, Eldar..shocked I know) rek them so it keeps them in check. 

[Quozzo]

Not to derail the thread, but Zembar you should look at the Flesh Tearers Force (can't remember the name) it has one troop and one fast attack (and HQ) mandatory with an extra 5 FA slots. Would save taking some scouts. Yuo also get Rage if you roll a 10 or more to charge, regardless of your actual distance.

[Zembar]

Not to derail the thread, but Zembar you should look at the Flesh Tearers Force (can't remember the name) it has one troop and one fast attack (and HQ) mandatory with an extra 5 FA slots. Would save taking some scouts. Yuo also get Rage if you roll a 10 or more to charge, regardless of your actual distance.

 

I did take a look at it, but the arguments against it are:

1. I like scouts!
2. I like ObSec scouts even more!
3. I'm not going to charge much with the BA units I selected. And a 1/6 chance of Rage isn't exactly mindblowing.

[BetterOffShred]

I had really hoped to ally with Sisters for this particular army.  I've fairly large Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons and Ork armies and wanted to get something else.   I really started it because its been my long term goal to have a sisters army with Grey Knights allies, but since they may or may not have plastic models this summer I bought the Knights first.. Which brings me to my point.  I was really hoping to avoid having a big pile of allies for one list, which is why I was thinking to go StormRaven and not worry about allying for drop pods.  Hopefully with an exorcist or two and a couple of immolators and a ton of sisters with melta's my dream will be realized.  

 

So the consensus for purifiers seems to be one Hammer and then basically no upgrades?  I can do that.  I may just magnetize a couple of dudes in case..  but for the ultimate goal it seems that bare purifiers will be the CC beatstick I need to roll with the ladies.  

 

Thanks for reading

 

-Brett

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I did take a look at it, but the arguments against it are:

1. I like scouts!
2. I like ObSec scouts even more!
3. I'm not going to charge much with the BA units I selected. And a 1/6 chance of Rage isn't exactly mindblowing.

 

1. Scouts are awful, except as Infiltrating+Scouting teleport homer caddies, to land our NSF off. As a combat unit they're overpriced garbage. 

2. Objective Secured doesn't matter when your Scouts die to even basic anti-infantry attention

3. BA are the melee Marine army. If you're not charging with them, what are you doing? 

I had really hoped to ally with Sisters for this particular army.  I've fairly large Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons and Ork armies and wanted to get something else.   I really started it because its been my long term goal to have a sisters army with Grey Knights allies, but since they may or may not have plastic models this summer I bought the Knights first.. Which brings me to my point.  I was really hoping to avoid having a big pile of allies for one list, which is why I was thinking to go StormRaven and not worry about allying for drop pods.  Hopefully with an exorcist or two and a couple of immolators and a ton of sisters with melta's my dream will be realized.  

 

Sisters are awful dude. There is no point to alllying them with GK. 

[BetterOffShred]

Eh its for the fluff of it dude.  I know they are super bad compared to everything else out there, but this army is being built purely because I like it.  That being said I still want to include the higher end of "optimal" designs from each book. Who knows, I doubt GW will make the new sisters book (if it ever comes) the ultimate steam-roller crush factory to beat, but they might make it a little more competitive than it is now.  I can hope!

 

-Brett

[MikkyWicks]

I did my Libby from the GKT kit, built as a Pally with Justicar legs, staff, books, no helmet, and some guitar string running from his temples to the Hood. All GK armor is Aegis armor, which has its own built in Psychic Hood. Also, stat wise, GK Librarians are IC Paladins with expanded power access and slightly different war gear selections, so kitting them out with Pally bling is appropriate. I've been thinking about modding some spare GK Stormbolters into Combi-weapons, and magnetizing his arm for swapping out his different range weapon options. His melee arm is already magnetized so he can share Nemesis weapon options with my other Termies. Haven't gotten around to modeling a Glaive, yet, which will most likely be a Sword mounted to a Halberd shaft.

SJ

Thanks for that Jeff, I wasn't sure if it would work because the terminator libby figure has a much bigger physic hood than the GK terminators. How did you paint yours? All blue or did you use blue for features and such?

[Zembar]

 

I did take a look at it, but the arguments against it are:

 

• I like scouts!
• I like ObSec scouts even more!
• I'm not going to charge much with the BA units I selected. And a 1/6 chance of Rage isn't exactly mindblowing.

1. Scouts are awful, except as Infiltrating+Scouting teleport homer caddies, to land our NSF off. As a combat unit they're overpriced garbage. 

2. Objective Secured doesn't matter when your Scouts die to even basic anti-infantry attention

3. BA are the melee Marine army. If you're not charging with them, what are you doing? 

1. Teleport homer sucks for my pod and sang priest. I'm using scout bikes for a beacon.

2. I'm hoping they'll be too busy with my termies and NDK doing terrible things to them to bother with my scouts.

3. Filling gaps in my list. I already have decent CC units, I want a pod, and I dislike Space Wolf aesthetics. A lot. In my list, which BA units would benefit from rage on the charge one time out of six? At least obsec does something.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Eh its for the fluff of it dude.  I know they are super bad compared to everything else out there, but this army is being built purely because I like it.  That being said I still want to include the higher end of "optimal" designs from each book. Who knows, I doubt GW will make the new sisters book (if it ever comes) the ultimate steam-roller crush factory to beat, but they might make it a little more competitive than it is now.  I can hope!

 

Okay...well spam Exorcists and Immolators. Maybe take Seraphim...maybe. Honestly, there is nothing else of interest to us with Sisters. They're a drawback more than a useful addition. GW won't buff Sisters if they ever do update them. 

1. Teleport homer sucks for my pod and sang priest. I'm using scout bikes for a beacon. 

 

Oh yeah, use the Scout Bikers for those units. But I'm talking about landing your GKT's. Your mandatory Scout tax can be used better with a teleport homer than a useless combi-flamer (you already have a heavy flamer on the Storm anyway). 

2. I'm hoping they'll be too busy with my termies and NDK doing terrible things to them to bother with my scouts. 

 

If they 'Seize' or have first turn, you should worry. Scouts die to anything pointed at them, even basic lasguns can kill them off without much trouble. So, if you expect to go second, Infiltrate them into a spot the enemy can't target easily. 

3. Filling gaps in my list. I already have decent CC units, I want a pod, and I dislike Space Wolf aesthetics. A lot. In my list, which BA units would benefit from rage on the charge one time out of six? At least obsec does something. 

 

'Objective Secured' is never going to matter dude. Both BA and GK are low model count armies, especially when played together. You're either going to murder whatever enemy unit is camping the objective in question, or be shot to pieces. Not to mention the enemy have 'Objective Secured' as well normally, so it's really pointless 99% of the time. 

 

Fair enough if you don't like SW, BA are functionally pretty much the same (Divination HQ, empty Drop Pod in FA, Death Company are sorta like TWC in threat). I'd probably take the Vanguard Strike detachment (whichever is the one that grants +1 Initiative on the charge). Combined with army-wide Furious Charge, that makes your BA hit like a tonne of bricks and ahead of most things they charge. 

[Zembar]

 

1. Teleport homer sucks for my pod and sang priest. I'm using scout bikes for a beacon. 

 

Oh yeah, use the Scout Bikers for those units. But I'm talking about landing your GKT's. Your mandatory Scout tax can be used better with a teleport homer than a useless combi-flamer (you already have a heavy flamer on the Storm anyway).

 

 

Well, my GKT will be in the same unit as the Sang and the Librarian, making the beacon necessary if I want them to arrive at once(homers only work for units composed 100% of terminator armour). I have no idea what a combi-flamer has to do with anything tbh. Or a Storm. Are you confusing me with someone else?

 

 

2. I'm hoping they'll be too busy with my termies and NDK doing terrible things to them to bother with my scouts. 

 

If they 'Seize' or have first turn, you should worry. Scouts die to anything pointed at them, even basic lasguns can kill them off without much trouble. So, if you expect to go second, Infiltrate them into a spot the enemy can't target easily. 

 

Obviously I'm going to keep them in cover, or I might as well just leave them in reserves the entire game.

 

3. Filling gaps in my list. I already have decent CC units, I want a pod, and I dislike Space Wolf aesthetics. A lot. In my list, which BA units would benefit from rage on the charge one time out of six? At least obsec does something. 

 

'Objective Secured' is never going to matter dude. Both BA and GK are low model count armies, especially when played together. You're either going to murder whatever enemy unit is camping the objective in question, or be shot to pieces. Not to mention the enemy have 'Objective Secured' as well normally, so it's really pointless 99% of the time. 

 

Fair enough if you don't like SW, BA are functionally pretty much the same (Divination HQ, empty Drop Pod in FA, Death Company are sorta like TWC in threat). I'd probably take the Vanguard Strike detachment (whichever is the one that grants +1 Initiative on the charge). Combined with army-wide Furious Charge, that makes your BA hit like a tonne of bricks and ahead of most things they charge.

 

But I don't have much in the BA part of my list that's good for charging. Do you mean that I should give my scouts CCWs and go for their throats?

[jeffersonian000]

Thanks for that Jeff, I wasn't sure if it would work because the terminator libby figure has a much bigger physic hood than the GK terminators. How did you paint yours? All blue or did you use blue for features and such?

He's painted to match my Paladins, except for a blue rimmed base. I color code the bases of my units and use matching icons and bling to differentiate them, instead of unit markings and color. Mordrak and his Ghost knights have white rimmed bases, my Libby has a dark blue base, Paladins a medium blue base, GKT have gray bases (lighter for one squad, darker for the other), Strikers have green bases, etc. Draigo still has a black base, which looks unfinished, although I do want to keep it black, so I might be adding swirls and star points, maybe some crushed glass "Warp Dust".

 

Pics are not my thing, although I will be getting done nice pics done some time when I have time.

 

SJ

[MikkyWicks]

 

Thanks for that Jeff, I wasn't sure if it would work because the terminator libby figure has a much bigger physic hood than the GK terminators. How did you paint yours? All blue or did you use blue for features and such?

He's painted to match my Paladins, except for a blue rimmed base. I color code the bases of my units and use matching icons and bling to differentiate them, instead of unit markings and color. Mordrak and his Ghost knights have white rimmed bases, my Libby has a dark blue base, Paladins a medium blue base, GKT have gray bases (lighter for one squad, darker for the other), Strikers have green bases, etc. Draigo still has a black base, which looks unfinished, although I do want to keep it black, so I might be adding swirls and star points, maybe some crushed glass "Warp Dust".

Pics are not my thing, although I will be getting done nice pics done some time when I have time.

SJ

That's not a bad idea Jeff, might try that for mine. Are your units magnetised or do you run with set load outs?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Well, my GKT will be in the same unit as the Sang and the Librarian, making the beacon necessary if I want them to arrive at once(homers only work for units composed 100% of terminator armour). I have no idea what a combi-flamer has to do with anything tbh. Or a Storm. Are you confusing me with someone else?

 

Oh nevermind, I was thinking of a different list lol. Scout Bikers are good. 

But I don't have much in the BA part of my list that's good for charging. Do you mean that I should give my scouts CCWs and go for their throats?

 

You could take Death Company as a bullet-magnet and assault unit. They're pretty self-sufficient (just attach Chaplain and laugh). 

[Deamon Wolf]

i know this would be silly but if you do end up gatting a sisters force and you end up fighting a deamon army at some point your grey knights will have to turn on your sisters just so they can use the blood of the pure to close the warp portal :)

 

fluffy but wont really help in the game :D

[jeffersonian000]

 

 

Thanks for that Jeff, I wasn't sure if it would work because the terminator libby figure has a much bigger physic hood than the GK terminators. How did you paint yours? All blue or did you use blue for features and such?

He's painted to match my Paladins, except for a blue rimmed base. I color code the bases of my units and use matching icons and bling to differentiate them, instead of unit markings and color. Mordrak and his Ghost knights have white rimmed bases, my Libby has a dark blue base, Paladins a medium blue base, GKT have gray bases (lighter for one squad, darker for the other), Strikers have green bases, etc. Draigo still has a black base, which looks unfinished, although I do want to keep it black, so I might be adding swirls and star points, maybe some crushed glass "Warp Dust".

Pics are not my thing, although I will be getting done nice pics done some time when I have time.

SJ

That's not a bad idea Jeff, might try that for mine. Are your units magnetised or do you run with set load outs?

I magnetize everything. Both hands, special weapon arms, PA backpacks, vehicle weapon options. I'm even considering reworking my Libby's weapon arm with a magnet and alignment pin, and modify a few of spare Stormbolter bits into Combi-weapons (-Flamer, -Melta, -Plasma). If so, I'll do up a gilded Relic Stormbolter, just because.

 

SJ

[thraxdown]

I find it so hard to keep up with so many magnets. but it's certainly convenient when writing lists. I made the mistake of not magnetizing the storm bolted hand, and now falchions are useful. Not sure what to do about that.

[BetterOffShred]

I find it so hard to keep up with so many magnets. but it's certainly convenient when writing lists. I made the mistake of not magnetizing the storm bolted hand, and now falchions are useful. Not sure what to do about that.

Jewelers saw, a little green stuff, then drill and sand and re-magnetize.   I got a jewelers saw for like 20$ a while back and it's basically a coping saw with a tiny tiny blade so you can saw through little plastic men with impunity.   I've been ordering all my magnets for a couple years now from Gaussboys, they have good prices and ship fast.    I magnetized all my Ork vehicles options and Dreads/Kans options before I tried to magnetize marines.  Now all my CSM squads have two magnetized hand guys for Flamer/Melta/Plasma option, all the lords have both arms magnetized for claws fists etc..   I love the magnets.  

 

With my GK's I really don't want to magnetize every dude.  I think I may magnetize 2/5 of each purifier squad and 2/5 of each terminator squad.  I already magnetized my NDK and Librarian.

 

-Brett

[BetterOffShred]

So I have been doing just a little bit of mental Math-hammering with my Purifier squads.. and It seems for 12 points, adding falchions to three dudes will net me 3 extra attacks (charge or not) which is one more attack than buying an extra dude..  so I was thinking I'd put a hammer on one guy and three falchions, and then the other dude leave stock.  so thats like 147 points for 5 dudes (if i remember correctly from last night) with .. ehh.. 18 attacks on the charge? With hammerhand active Falchions seem to pencil out to be pimp-status with or without the charge.   I'm fairly sold on this idea right now, and as I don't want to magnetize every dude I'm about to pull the trigger on this..

 

Any opinions? :) 

 

-Brett

[MikkyWicks]

So I have been doing just a little bit of mental Math-hammering with my Purifier squads.. and It seems for 12 points, adding falchions to three dudes will net me 3 extra attacks (charge or not) which is one more attack than buying an extra dude.. so I was thinking I'd put a hammer on one guy and three falchions, and then the other dude leave stock. so thats like 147 points for 5 dudes (if i remember correctly from last night) with .. ehh.. 18 attacks on the charge? With hammerhand active Falchions seem to pencil out to be pimp-status with or without the charge. I'm fairly sold on this idea right now, and as I don't want to magnetize every dude I'm about to pull the trigger on this..

Any opinions?

-Brett

How do you get them to the enemy before they realise what's coming and nuke them?

[Captain Coolpants]

That's the whole problem with our army, we have average infantry shooting, no anti tank/teq/meq shooting, so we rely on combat (we have no low ap shooting but all low ap combat).

 

BUT.... To get to combat we need a rather expensive assault vehicle, or teleport /shunt/rhino or walk up the board, which as we all know, for a such a small army is insanely dangerous (rhinos are insta first blood and the rest allow a whole turn or more of being shot in the face) . So 5 men by themselves will probably do nothing unless you had numerous 5 man squads to saturate the field and split up enemy fire.

 

 

I remember when I first used purifiers, they wreaked face (although this was last edition with free/cheaper weapons) But after that first game, your opponent knows to blow them to pieces first.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Delivery is the key, as others have said. On foot, you can enjoy getting shot off the table in about 2 shooting phases (dead serious, xenos have zero trouble making that happen). It's half the reason 'Nemesis Strikeforce' is the only way to play us now. Turn 1 Deepstrike your Terminators into their face, Shunt DK's and/or Interceptors in support at the same time, crush their flank. Turn 2, bring on Purifiers in a Raven, hop out and 'Cleansing Flame' their gunline. 

 

Allies such as BA and SW offer empty Drop Pods to put Purifiers into as well, and they can come on Turn 1 as well if you build correctly.