Starting a Grey Knights force..

[IndigoJack]

...no anti tank/teq/meq shooting, so we rely on combat (we have no low ap shooting but all low ap combat).

 

No low AP is easily mitigated through volume of fire. Psycannons are still a thing in our book. I've been playing with 2 or 3 (depending on point level) 5man purifier squads with 2x psycannons each since the second month our new book was released. In general, psycannons are still fantastic guns, even given the limitations of salvo. I've had little problems with wraiths (old wraiths, as I haven't had a chance to play the new codex yet), thunderwolves, MEQ spam, TEQ spam, knights, and necron AV13 spam (again, old codex).  In fact, the only army that consistently gives me problems, is serpent spam.

 

As far as delivering the psycannons, I've found rhinos still work well. Move 12" turn 1, then flat out or pop smoke in the shooting phase. Turn 2, I start shooting, and generally don't stop until my opponent is wiped (which seems to happen more often than not) or those purifiers are dead. Are rhinos easy first blood? Sure, but unless you or your opponent playing a first blood denial list, first blood usually goes to who goes first. In statistically half your games, you'll get to move your rhinos before your opponent gets to fire at them. In the other half, you might lose a couple rhinos. but remember, no army is ever going to be able to wipe every rhino, and outside of drop pods or serpent spam, I've not lost more than 2 rhinos during the first turn. and against drop pod armies, it doesn't matter as much because they've sent their army to me.

 

And really, the thing is most armies are going to come to you with the exception of guard, eldar and tau. Even those armies aren't unbeatable.

 

So, TL;DR? Pyscannons are still the answer to many of our problems.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

No low AP is easily mitigated through volume of fire. Psycannons are still a thing in our book. I've been playing with 2 or 3 (depending on point level) 5man purifier squads with 2x psycannons each since the second month our new book was released. In general, psycannons are still fantastic guns, even given the limitations of salvo. I've had little problems with wraiths (old wraiths, as I haven't had a chance to play the new codex yet), thunderwolves, MEQ spam, TEQ spam, knights, and necron AV13 spam (again, old codex).  In fact, the only army that consistently gives me problems, is serpent spam.

 

As far as delivering the psycannons, I've found rhinos still work well. Move 12" turn 1, then flat out or pop smoke in the shooting phase. Turn 2, I start shooting, and generally don't stop until my opponent is wiped (which seems to happen more often than not) or those purifiers are dead. Are rhinos easy first blood? Sure, but unless you or your opponent playing a first blood denial list, first blood usually goes to who goes first. In statistically half your games, you'll get to move your rhinos before your opponent gets to fire at them. In the other half, you might lose a couple rhinos. but remember, no army is ever going to be able to wipe every rhino, and outside of drop pods or serpent spam, I've not lost more than 2 rhinos during the first turn. and against drop pod armies, it doesn't matter as much because they've sent their army to me.

 

Alternatively, you could have those psycannons on Terminators, Deepstriking Turn 1 into the enemy's face and demanding answers. The reason Salvo is so infuriatingly awful is you halve range by moving, and due to 24" range you'll be at least a turn of movement out of position. Relentless on TDA or DK's takes care of that issue. 

 

Meching isn't a long-term solution. Remember, the metagame is evolved to murder Serpent lists, and Necron mech. Our AV11 deathtraps won't help. 2+ armour saves have been better than AV for some time now, and we're given the cheapest Terminators in the game. I used to use fire support Purifiers to great effect, but their time has passed. If you're on foot, you need to be durable, or you're only one Shooting phase away from being vapour. It's why IG are returning to mech, why Marines are almost all drop or Biker lists now, and why Centurions have replaced Devastators. 

 

I would also stress that psycannon being a jack of trades means it's not especially good at any one role. Yes, it kills infantry, but not as well as incinerators and storm bolter. Yes, it can Rend to kill 3+ or 2+ saves, or punch through tanks, but its not something to rely upon. It's why we really need Allies in larger games. They can bring the long range AP2 and anti-tank we desperately need, while we wade through infantry and stab everything to death. 

[MikkyWicks]

Delivery is the key, as others have said. On foot, you can enjoy getting shot off the table in about 2 shooting phases (dead serious, xenos have zero trouble making that happen). It's half the reason 'Nemesis Strikeforce' is the only way to play us now. Turn 1 Deepstrike your Terminators into their face, Shunt DK's and/or Interceptors in support at the same time, crush their flank. Turn 2, bring on Purifiers in a Raven, hop out and 'Cleansing Flame' their gunline. 

 

Allies such as BA and SW offer empty Drop Pods to put Purifiers into as well, and they can come on Turn 1 as well if you build correctly.

 

Would you not use DKs as fire support and leave them further back to try and nuke something while you deep strike your termies in and flank with interceptors?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Would you not use DKs as fire support and leave them further back to try and nuke something while you deep strike your termies in and flank with interceptors? 

 

No. They have great guns, but they're first and foremost melee gods. Getting them into combat also solves the issue of 'how do I stop my opponent shooting them with his entire army?'. The teleporter upgrade exists for a reason. 

[Quozzo]

 

No low AP is easily mitigated through volume of fire. Psycannons are still a thing in our book. I've been playing with 2 or 3 (depending on point level) 5man purifier squads with 2x psycannons each since the second month our new book was released. In general, psycannons are still fantastic guns, even given the limitations of salvo. I've had little problems with wraiths (old wraiths, as I haven't had a chance to play the new codex yet), thunderwolves, MEQ spam, TEQ spam, knights, and necron AV13 spam (again, old codex).  In fact, the only army that consistently gives me problems, is serpent spam.

 

As far as delivering the psycannons, I've found rhinos still work well. Move 12" turn 1, then flat out or pop smoke in the shooting phase. Turn 2, I start shooting, and generally don't stop until my opponent is wiped (which seems to happen more often than not) or those purifiers are dead. Are rhinos easy first blood? Sure, but unless you or your opponent playing a first blood denial list, first blood usually goes to who goes first. In statistically half your games, you'll get to move your rhinos before your opponent gets to fire at them. In the other half, you might lose a couple rhinos. but remember, no army is ever going to be able to wipe every rhino, and outside of drop pods or serpent spam, I've not lost more than 2 rhinos during the first turn. and against drop pod armies, it doesn't matter as much because they've sent their army to me.

Alternatively, you could have those psycannons on Terminators, Deepstriking Turn 1 into the enemy's face and demanding answers. The reason Salvo is so infuriatingly awful is you halve range by moving, and due to 24" range you'll be at least a turn of movement out of position. Relentless on TDA or DK's takes care of that issue.

 

Not to mention you cant fire salvo weapons and then charge, which is something relentless terminators have no trouble with.

[thraxdown]

 

Would you not use DKs as fire support and leave them further back to try and nuke something while you deep strike your termies in and flank with interceptors?

 

No. They have great guns, but they're first and foremost melee gods. Getting them into combat also solves the issue of 'how do I stop my opponent shooting them with his entire army?'. The teleporter upgrade exists for a reason.

I agree completely. The heavy psycannonand incinerator are great weapons, but the dread knight is made to punch things. Not to mention, that's the answer to our antitank problem. The dreadknight will be your can opener if you need it to be.

[Arebennian]

So how would you run purifiers then if you were going to take a squad of 10? Or build an army around 20-30 of them?

 

Psycannons or not?

 

10men in rhinos or smaller squads in razorbacks?

[MikkyWicks]

 

 

Would you not use DKs as fire support and leave them further back to try and nuke something while you deep strike your termies in and flank with interceptors?

 

No. They have great guns, but they're first and foremost melee gods. Getting them into combat also solves the issue of 'how do I stop my opponent shooting them with his entire army?'. The teleporter upgrade exists for a reason.

I agree completely. The heavy psycannonand incinerator are great weapons, but the dread knight is made to punch things. Not to mention, that's the answer to our antitank problem. The dreadknight will be your can opener if you need it to be.

So what you're saying is, start your DKs and interceptors on the board, deep strike termies into their lines and then shunt everything into melee and hope for the best?

[Zembar]

 

 

I agree completely. The heavy psycannonand incinerator are great weapons, but the dread knight is made to punch things. Not to mention, that's the answer to our antitank problem. The dreadknight will be your can opener if you need it to be.

So what you're saying is, start your DKs and interceptors on the board, deep strike termies into their lines and then shunt everything into melee and hope for the best?

 

 

That sounds about right. There is the possibility of allying in drop pods and throwing purifiers in their face as well, if you're into that sort of thing.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So how would you run purifiers then if you were going to take a squad of 10? Or build an army around 20-30 of them?

 

Psycannons or not?

 

10men in rhinos or smaller squads in razorbacks?

 

Storm Ravens or Allied empty drop pods. Don't mech them, you'll lose them and they won't kill anything. 

So what you're saying is, start your DKs and interceptors on the board, deep strike termies into their lines and then shunt everything into melee and hope for the best? 

 

Yeah, so this is basically how it works;

 

Deployment:

- DK's all cluster around Comms Array (this prevents lucky sniping removing the DK' guarding it, also Shunt means it really doesn't matter where you deploy them)

Turn 1:

- Roll for Reserves, get everything on (barring truly horrific rolls you should do, it's why Comms is the best 70pts you'll spend)

- Land Terminators

- Shunt DK's up (the Comms Array is now useless, so you can abandon it without any real drawback)

- Dump all your firepower into a few key targets

Turn 2:

- Whatever the enemy hasn't killed can now charge. Do so (after activating any 'Hammerhand', 'Sanctuary' or 'Force' you need, plus 'Prescience' of course)

- Rinse and repeat

 

It's what's worked for me thus far. I'm adding Mechanicum to the mix soon, so we'll see how that works out. 

That sounds about right. There is the possibility of allying in drop pods and throwing purifiers in their face as well, if you're into that sort of thing.

 

I don't fight much infantry swarm locally (aside from Nids, who I don't consider a threat because I outshoot and outmelee them). If I did, I'd do that. 'Cleansing Flame' at point blank range against an infantry mass is truly amazing. 

[BetterOffShred]

Yeah I've been planning on StormRavens as my original couple of posts in this thread indicated.  So I'm probably going to go 3x Falchions and a hammer on my Purifiers and put canons on my Terminators.   It's Fluffy, and if the Ravens get them there (hopefully allowed to by my NDK's and Terminators getting up in the faces) then the purifiers will be able to go to work with CF and falchions :)

 

-Brett

[MikkyWicks]

Where do you get a Comms Relay from and where are the rules for it?

[thraxdown]

I think the actual model comes with the imperial bastion kit . The rules you'll be able to find in stronghold assault. I don't know if the rules issue was ever cleared up but some think stronghold assault allows you to take a comms relay without taking a fortification first. However if you play that it must be purchased with a fortification (most do) then an aegis defence line with comms relay is the cheapest way to do it.

[MikkyWicks]

I think the actual model comes with the imperial bastion kit . The rules you'll be able to find in stronghold assault. I don't know if the rules issue was ever cleared up but some think stronghold assault allows you to take a comms relay without taking a fortification first. However if you play that it must be purchased with a fortification (most do) then an aegis defence line with comms relay is the cheapest way to do it.

What's an aegis defence line sorry Thraxdown?

[thraxdown]

It's a fortification you can add to your army list and setup during your deployment. It gives a cover save to everything behind it, but it can also take battlefield debris such as a comms relay or a gun emplacement. Check p109 of the rulebook. If you buy the aegis defence line kit it comes with the defence line and a quad cannon. The actual comms relay is packaged with the imperial bastion, along with the icarus lascannon.

[BetterOffShred]

One could easily whip up a DIY comms relay with a couple of clever bits and some card-stock.  I pick up anything I see at the dollar store that has LED's in it so I can put them into terrain.  I got a bunch of little red neck flashlight deals but it's basically a real bright LED hooked up to a battery for extra effect.  A couple antennas and a control panel bit.. booya.  

 

-Brett

[MikkyWicks]

P109 of the GK codex? I'll give it a read when I get home. I might try a DIY comms relay unless the other ones are actually useful like the cannon?

[thraxdown]

109 of the 40k rulebook. It doesn't have the point costs on there (they're found in stronghold assault) but gives the rules for defence lines and comms relays. Definitely go the diy route if you're not interested in the bastion. The quad cannon is useful for us as it gives us an anti-air option we can't get from our codex. I never use one but if you face flyer heavy armies it would be something to consider.

[MikkyWicks]

Alright then I'll have a read up when I get home. What does it do exactly?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Quad-gun is a 4 shot autocannon with twin-linked, Interceptor and Skyfire, but only BS2. You can put a model in B2B with it to use their BS instead. It's okay, but against Flyer armies its only one gun and easily focused to death. 

[Arebennian]

 

So how would you run purifiers then if you were going to take a squad of 10? Or build an army around 20-30 of them?

 

Psycannons or not?

 

10men in rhinos or smaller squads in razorbacks?

 

Storm Ravens or Allied empty drop pods. Don't mech them, you'll lose them and they won't kill anything.  

Psycannons or not?

5 or 10 man in the ravens?

Same question about the drop pods.

Isn't the risk of them crashing and burning inside with the squad inside too high?

Also, having never played 6th or 7th (just getting back into the game after 3rd and 4th edition) by the time that you drop them off in a drop pod or Storm Raven, don't you miss the opportunity to cleansing flame that turn (I'm not sure of the sequence of the psychic phase and where it comes. In the other editions, it didn't matter).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Psycannons or not?

 

Nope. Salvo rules dude. 

5 or 10 man in the ravens?

 

I'd go 5-man, the Raven is a lot more expensive than a Drop Pod. If in a Pod, I'd go for a full 10-man squad, and combat squad them for double-casting 'Cleansing Flame'. 

Isn't the risk of them crashing and burning inside with the squad inside too high?

Also, having never played 6th or 7th (just getting back into the game after 3rd and 4th edition) by the time that you drop them off in a drop pod or Storm Raven, don't you miss the opportunity to cleansing flame that turn (I'm not sure of the sequence of the psychic phase and where it comes. In the other editions, it didn't matter).

 

Psychic Phase occurs after Movement but before Shooting. So no, you disembark in the Movement phase, then its the Psychic phase. 

[Arebennian]

Cheers for the facts and educated opinions!

[BetterOffShred]

Cheers for the facts and educated opinions!

I know right? that's why I come here.  Everyone seems pretty friendly and answers questions and helps out.  I'd have a beer with just about everyone here I've conversed with. 

 

Ive been collecting Tyranids for a few years and I think I might buy that Shield of Baal Box to play with my wife, which would give me some Blood Angels to ally with for the time being, which might make Drop pods a thing for me.  We'll see...  It's an interesting concept I guess! :)

 

-Brett

[Prot]

Ignore the box set. Selling that Land Raider kit is going to be a pain, no one uses them (not even 30k players). 

 

Your purchases should be;

 

2-4 x Terminator boxes (depends on how many you wish to run, but 10 minimum for Troops purposes)

2-4 x Dreadknight boxes (2 are bare minimum in all lists, ideally run 3-4)

2-3 x Strike squad boxes (best value for money in terms of PA models. Also, you won't ever need more than 30 x PA models, 20 is usually heaps)

 

You can make all our heroes except Draigo using Terminator bits, so don't bother buying the overpriced metal GK ones. 

 

I'd also pick up an Aegis Line for a Fortification. With a Comms Relay, it really help make the Nemesis Strikeforce work as intended. Without it, you're at the mercy of Reserve rolls. 

 

Stupid question time: Where would I find the rules for the Nemesis Strikeforce? Codex? Is there anywhere else I need to look for GK formations?

 

Also, how do you config the PA models (I wouldn't want to waste any on 'dumb' loadouts.)

 

And just to be sure: Purifiers/Interceptors aren't worth it?