Another XIX legion list 1500 points help

[Grim Dog Studios]

Hi all, like many it seems lately I have chosen to do a Raven Guard army with a major terran theme. However I'm also having trouble with writing the list. 

I'm going for a 1500 list to start with, which can be added to as I go along. I've got the main core list going down, being this:

 

+ Troops (480pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

Legion Tactical Squad (240pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]
····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

+ Elites (260pts) +

Mor Deythan Strike Squad (260pts) [Artificer Armour, 3x Combi-weapon, 2x Flamer, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 2x Legiones Astartes Shotgun, Melta Bombs, 6x Mor Deythan]

 

Thats 740 points, leaving me 760 for a HQ and other goodies. I was thinking of possibly going for a Legion Delagatus as the HQ but wasn't entirely too sure how to equip him, I also like contemptor dreads and would love to be able to fit one in if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm really stuck at the minute!

[Nusquam]

The tac squads are loaded for bear, but without an assault transport it's likely they will be the ones being assaulted. I'd trim points from them to put more potent weapons on the Mor Deythan. They get one Fatal Strike so maximizing it can go a long way. Keep the Tacs moving, shooting, and scoring.

 

Delegatus are great in that they have no limit on gear. If you want a really hard hitting unit you can give him the Nanyte Blaster, put him with Mor Deythan, take a Darkwing and put some serious hurt on just about any infantry unit. Alternatively he's cheap and can stay that way. Give him Cameleoline, take some rapiers and put him with them and, barring a Typhon, they'll be hard pressed to die. Put points you saved into additional Mor Deythan squads or something. Gives you a good firebase that can reach out and touch something. 1.5k points is probably the max I would use a Delegatus, because if you use Decap Strike he's your only Consul.

 

I've had success with a Contemptor in an Anvillus. Deepstrike then flat out to get in a good position behind cover(if there are Sicarans, if not, anywhere and jink for a 4+). Then next turn move 6", disembark 6", and charge 2-12" with fleet. It will put the Contemptor exactly where you want it.

 

A cheap Camo Delegatus, Double Thuddgun battery, Anvillus and Contemptor will run you around 475-500 points depending on upgrades. Shift around points and you could get a second Mor Deythan squad if you'd like.

 

That's just one example. Besides the Contemptor, what else do you want to do? Ambush and unload firepower, move around and strike at weak points, etc?

[jeremy1391]

That's a pretty standard core for Raven guard.

 

I'd consider a dark wing for some good sneaky AA.

 

For HQ maybe take Maun then stick a contemptor in a pod for that precision drop ;) (you could also deep strike the dark wing in mauns bubble.)

[Slips]

That's a pretty standard core for Raven guard.

I'd consider a dark wing for some good sneaky AA.

For HQ maybe take Maun then stick a contemptor in a pod for that precision drop (you could also deep strike the dark wing in mauns bubble.)

I think below 2k the Delegatus might be better than Maun since he's not as points heavy. Also, you'd have more toys and boys at 2k+ to sufficiently protect Maun without sacrificing Firepower.

[Grim Dog Studios]

So after taking into consideration your guy's advice I've tried coming up with a list!

I originally didnt want to have a darkwing in my list because im honestly scared of not having the ability to do one justice, but they do seem to be very good rulewise so ill just have to man up!

Heres the list, wasnt sure what weapon to take on the dread but the kheres seems pretty solid! The idea is that the Delegatus will run with the Mor Deythan as Nusquam suggested (Not sure what combi weapons to use on them however!). I couldnt find points to give both tactical squads a rhino so only one of them has one unfortunatley. I think there is 16 points left to spend but I'm not too sure what I can do with themm in this current list!

 

+ HQ (150pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (150pts) [Artificer Armour, Nanyte Blaster, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

Consul [Delegatus]

 

+ Troops (425pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (230pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (195pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Elites (809pts) +

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (190pts)

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon]

 

Mor Deythan Strike Squad (619pts) [Artificer Armour, 5x Combi-weapon, 2x Legiones Astartes Shotgun, Melta Bombs, 3x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web, 9x Mor Deythan]

Darkwing Storm Eagle [Armoured Ceramite]

 

+ Fast Attack (100pts) +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)

 

Thanks for looking and all feedback is greatly appreciated!

[Nusquam]

I recommend combi-flamers to start. Automatically hits, Fatal Strike gives it psuedo-shred from twinlinking a template, rending, and it already has ignores cover. If you can get 5 solid hits per flamer you'll kill around 4 terminators from failed armor saves alone, not to mention 3-4 rends, plus maybe one from the MLs for about 7ish dead termis or around 13-15 dead tacs(depending on cover for the MLs). Plus you can assault after if you're so inclined. Inside a Darkwing they can be put where you want them and gives them evasion. Add in some lascannons from the Darkwing to crack a transport or shoot whats already on foot. Then it's Eclipse Launcher. Whatever you set your sights on will be hurting. Plus if it's a tougher unit, say a few terminators or finishing off a Tac blob; your contemptor will be in place to help finish it off or assault whats left so your Mor Deythan can escape in the Darkwing. At that point there's very few units that can survive and be at decent fighting strength and I didn't even include the Nanyte Blaster.

 

I like the list. Land Raiders will require additional finesse to deal with, but at this points level you should have the numerical advantage and maneuverability to exploit weakness.

[Grim Dog Studios]

Sorry for not getting back to you for a couple of days. I had been leaning towards the combi-flamers myself also. Do you think the MLs are a good idea, or should i also switch those too flamers? 

 

I'm also thinking of ways to expand the force into a 2000 point list once I've gotten the 1500 list ready for play. I was thinking that im a bit Anti tank 'light', and if I were to play 2000 point games thered be more armour that I would have to deal with. I dont play often, which im hoping to rectify once ive finished this army, so im a bit sketchy on a lot of stuff. Could a fire raptor serve an AT role at all?

[Nusquam]

The MLs are a good choice. The have frag and Krak so you can still rack up the wound count or ID marines or take on armor in a pinch. Or if you wanted to save some points combi meltas aren't bad either and can be shot from behind the flamers. It's really up to you.

 

Invest in Strike-Captain Maun. He is bufftastic. He makes sure your pods and flyers arrive from reserves. Plus he has that 18" no scatter bubble. Perfect for calling down a Darkwing full of Mor Deythan and having them pop out and FATAL STRIKE.

 

Rapiers are great anti tank. Plus we RG can infiltrate them to get them in optimal position, plus Predatory Strike from our RoW helps ensure we hit first and at their weakpoints. Put Maun with the rapiers and if anything comes after them he can call down some fierce deliverance. Plus if he's on the table you can reroll the Seize die.

 

Lightnings are, bar D weapons, the best ranged AT in the game. Their Kraken Penetrator missiles are literally flying meltabombs stats-wise. Take 4 missiles, tank hunter and strafing run upgrades and kill a knight or spartan the turn they arrive. With Mauns 18" bubble they can come down and get side shots to avoid flare shields. But be careful; they are fragile and when they deepstrike they can't jink since they are zooming(pg 81 of the red book). You can land them behind a ruin or Darkwing to obscure them and let the Darkwing jink for a 3+ should there be any Deredeos or Mortis Dreads around.

 

Fire Raptors are solid choice too if you want something beefier, and can take on multiple targets. The ACs can get side shots in light/medium AV, fire all the missiles into light AV, then PotMS the nose cannon into the contents of that rhino you just popped with the missiles. If you already have an interest in a Raptor you won't be disappointed.

 

An example of some recommendations going forward:

• Switch the Delegatus for Maun
• Take a Lightning with a full rack of kraken and upgrades or a Fire Raptor with the AC upgrade(same cost)
• Triple Thuddgun rapier battery

You're left with 170 points for another HQ, or what have you. Perhaps a Vigilator with the Nanyte Blaster to accompany the Mor Deythan? Throw in a Navigator too? Or Moritat-Prime Kaedes Nex? Or if you took the Lighting, and/or have a HS slot open, a Sicaran wouldn't be bad either.

 

Is there anything you're already eying? Or just want some general input like the above.

[Grim Dog Studios]

Thanks again for the help, it is really appreciated!

 

I'm still considering the dark wing really, I really don't think im up to the task of doing it justice, and it is quite an investment!

Do you think there is a way of running the list without one? Or would a rhino just not suffice for the transportation of the Mor Deythan.

 

I made an attempt to change the 1500 point list to reflect this;

 

+ HQ (115pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (115pts) [Artificer Armour, Cameleoline, Power Weapon, Refractor Field]

Consul [Delegatus]

 

+ Troops (460pts) +

 

Legion Tactical Squad (230pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (230pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

+ Elites (669pts) +

 

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (190pts)

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon]

 

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery (120pts)

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]

Legion Rapier Weapons Battery [Quad Mortar ('Thud Gun')]

 

Mor Deythan Strike Squad (359pts) [Artificer Armour, 5x Combi-weapon, Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 2x Legiones Astartes Shotgun, Melta Bombs, 3x Missile Launcher with Suspensor Web, 9x Mor Deythan]

 

+ Fast Attack (100pts) +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)

 

+ Heavy Support (155pts) +

 

Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (155pts) [Armoured Ceramite]

 

As you can see I am pretty indecisive, but the Dark Wing has been gnawing at me :/

I really do appreciate all the advice you are giving me though!

 

Another quick question, are Veteran Squads worth taking at all? A 10 man Squad with two HB's and Sniper seems quite appealing, or a 10 man squad with two ML's and tank hunters. I'm more of an infantry man at heart rather than the bigger stuff like flyers or super heavy tanks.

[Nusquam]

The Mor Deythan can certainly work in a rhino. With infiltrate and scout you can get within 12" of a target during deployment, move 6", disembark 6" and FATAL STRIKE something. At 1.5k points them getting blasted off is less likely. You can also fire the MLs from the top hatch of the rhino. The suspensor gives you the option of halving the range to make it assault. So when you kill something off an objective you can keep popping off missiles at range.

 

Legion Vets are good. The problem is that they compete with Mor Deythan for killing infantry and Rapiers for AT, both of which are better. At low points with the 'Chosen Duty' RoW they are good for improving your base troop into a more elite force, then you can also take things like Mor Deythan. But the way the game functions, from a mechanical standpoint, it is often better to minimize cost on some units and maximizing others for their specific task. Keep troops cheap to score and use those points saved to fill out killy units like Mor Deythan. But even with that said; you can still make a great list with what you want. It just depends on what you want. Optimization in a list is good an all, but tactics and generalship will get you further. Or if you just want a good list and thematics. It's possible in 30k. Easier in my opinion.

 

As for the list itself. Find points for a Vex on the tacticals. Lack of ATSKNF makes moral huge in 30k. Drop the additional CC weapons on the tacs. It was something I used to add all the time in my lists but I soon learned the tacs were never getting into combat. They would hang back and score objectives while everything else killed things. When things did get close they were already maimed from my offensive elements that the CC weapons were overkill. With the multiple shell options on the Rapiers your tacs will likely be finishing off scraps. Should give you enough points to add 2 Vex and have 20 points leftover. Other than that I like the list. Mobile and potent where it needs to be. You could put the Rapiers on one side and the Sicaran on the other and get enemy armor in a crossfire.

 

Perhaps switch out the ceremite and use those 20 points to add lascannons to the Sicaran. Theres so much armored ceremite that I rarely see melta. It's mostly armourbane, high strength, and haywire. Plus the Sicaran is fast and can get away and outmaneuver. But that's a judgement call for you based on your frequent opponents and meta. If you do face a lot of mobile melta than the ceremite would do you good. It's up to you.